Video Card
To some degree, the onboard graphics capabilities of the GF8200 and 780G would have sufficed for the majority of our needs. However, I like to play RTS or Racing/Flight Simulation games when time is available (wishful thinking actually) and my daughter is a big Sims 2, Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, and World of WarCraft fan. The capabilities of the 780G and GF8200 allow these games to perform reasonably well in resolutions up to 1280x1024 depending on quality settings, but we wanted to stick with the native 1920x1200 LCD resolution where possible so a discrete card is mandatory.
Since the games we play are not as graphically demanding as current FPS titles, we have some latitude in our selections. The first GPU that popped into my mind is NVIDIA's 9600GT. This chipset offers excellent performance for the price and has the HD display output capabilities we both need. The AMD HD 3850 was also a logical choice, especially with the budgetary requirements. However, not being logical at times can pay off. Considering the fact that I would like to get a good two years out of our GPU selection, it was time to move up market for something a little more powerful but a choice that would not break the bank.
I might have OCD, but in my experiences, keeping the same chipset manufacturer for both the motherboard and GPU seems to reduce the number of variables to diagnose when something goes wrong. In addition, at least subjectively, performance always seems a little better if it is an NVIDIA GPU on a NVIDIA board and the same with AMD.
With that thinking in mind, I decided to go for an HD 3870 card for my 780G machine. We have used the MSI, ASUS, and Gigabyte cards extensively in the labs and any one of them is an excellent choice. At any time, you can find several HD 3870 cards on sale for $149~$159 from various manufacturers. Knowing how cramped our case is and subject to increased thermals with our component loads, I decided on the Sapphire Toxic Radeon HD 3870 card as it runs about 5C cooler than other cards and it features a single-slot cooling design that is a requirement. The price of $159.99 after rebate was a little higher than the budget allowed, but by this time you have figured out the budget is flexible - at least until the Visa bill arrives.
For the GF8200 board in my daughter's system, I really debated whether to go the 9600 GT or 8800GS route, but knowing Spore and Sims 3 is on the horizon it appeared a little more power would provide some safety. So I decided on the 8800GT 512MB and like the AMD cards, there are numerous cards on sale at various times ranging from $150~$170 range. In the end, it came down to the MSI NX8800GT 512M OC at $159.99 or the Zotac 8800GT AMP! at $154.99 after rebates. The MSI card runs the core GPU clock at 660MHz and the Zotac at 700MHz, both guaranteed clocks above the 600MHz standard, which is nice to know that the supplier is promising an overclock without repercussions. Besides the slightly better price, the Zotac card had one large advantage: a single-slot cooler design, which is perfect for our uATX case.
I have to say I am very impressed with both video cards, from not only a design viewpoint but also looking at performance in our primary applications. However, the games I play benefit greatly from anti-aliasing and the HD 3870 suffers in this area when compared to the 8800GT. I knew that going in and it was the primary reason I wanted the GF8200/8800GT combination. I simply could have bought another 8800GT from Zotac and used it on the AMD board without problems, but between the OCD and balancing funds to each competitor, I decided to let my fondness for music make the decision. I will explain why in the audio section.
When it comes right down to it, the HD 3870 even with AA/AF enabled still provides very good performance for my needs. In addition, I still think AMD has a slight edge in Vista driver compatibility and desktop screen quality after comparing the two systems. Zotac includes an extensive accessory package along with a solid design that just gives you a secure feeling about the product and that the company backing it knows what the customer wants. The Sapphire package and product design also gives you that same sense of security and the card just looks right in the system, what little of it you can see.
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deruberhanyok - Thursday, May 29, 2008 - link
Just wanted to say I've never really understood the collective first person pronouns ("we" etc) in the context of an article, even when I was doing it myself. It seems to be accepted in journalism, but if an article is written by one person I don't understand why it isn't written with the singular terms.Also, nice writeup!
strikeback03 - Thursday, May 29, 2008 - link
Myspace requires users to be at least 14, don't they? Are you encouraging your daughter to lie about her age already?gochichi - Thursday, May 29, 2008 - link
I wish I had found more value in this but I simply think these choices were pretty random. Whenever you include a sound card in a "budget system" you already lost me, particularly when the superior Q6600 is "out of budget" and you force the situation into an oddball 3-core processor... all of this for less than the price of the completely uneccessary/absurd sound card. My speakers were $150.00 a few months ago and there is simply no discernable difference between an Audigy and onboard sound, they both sound fantastic. (I made a mistake and purchased a sound card, I would never recommend it to anyone, certainly not anyone on any sort of budget... unless you were connecting it to $500+ of sound equipment).To me getting the best core components makes sense when "on a budget" rather than buying 8GB of RAM, buy 4GB and leave expanding to 8GB later. The oddball 3-core processor is pretty much non-upgradeable... it is replaceable, not upgradeable. I guess my main problem is with the Phenom choice... and to pretend that this is a budget driven decision is beyond me. But it feels more like a bribe induced decision (budget... you take the payout, it's good for your budget) than a logical decision, particularly for a system with 8GB of very fast RAM.
Taking the rest of the selection into account, you have the fast RAM, the fancy-pants power supply... why not spend $50.00 on Q6600 and get your 3.0Ghz+ quad-core system?
It's not the only random choice by any means, and calling this system a "budget system" is simply outdated, a budget computer system in 2008 means around $500.00 not around $1000.00. It is certainly a faux pas in this day and age to go above $500.00 and go AMD. I can't let that slide, and I'm not a fanboy either, I am just a reasonable guy that would buy a $75.00 AMD processor without flinching if it fit the need and the budget. AMD is a great choice for a one task system, particularly if that one task is playing bluray disks and media center because of the superior onboard graphics that are available. But for an 8GB of RAM workhorse?? Yikes!
Basically for the reader of this website, the choices are simply too arbitrary to be useful. I concede that we were warned that this would be a blog and not an article, but still.
Comdrpopnfresh - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - link
I feel something should be made of the fact that all the builds were overbudget. Even more so, I feel that mail in rebates should be used to allow for a component in the system (processing, graphics, storage, etc.) to be expanded a bit further. I feel the mail in rebates for the builds were used to minimize the already rampant budgets. Considering the companies that release the rebates will look for every possible way to void them, it isn't smart to treat them in this way.I've had the same problem in making systems to fit a budget envelope. However, a good change I think that could have been made is no graphics. The words that really stuck out with me are that the sims three and spore are upcoming. If the integrated gfx meet the needs, and the taxing demands have not been released, why not wait (esp. in the case of a computer for your child) to either get the same gfx upgrade for less, or more for the same?
I feel with current custom building, even with prices falling for components across the board, budgeting is the hardest part. I hope that this point is highlighted, because, even though this article shows the evils of this issue, it certainly brings it to the forefront nonetheless.
ishould - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
I would have liked to see a GPU with hybrid SLI technology chosen primarily because you said you don't use it for gaming much. Pairing the chipset with a 9600GT, while it may be a little more expensive, will likely make up the cost in power requirements multiple times over by not having to run 100W+ idle all the time. Just my 2 centskmmatney - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
It would seem to me that you would want a dual slot Video card, rather than a single slot, for an mATX system. That way you are blowing the video card heat out of the small case. Would a dual-slot card fit in the case?jmurbank - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
It seems you selected components that you desperately want to get for your next setup. To decrease the price of each setup, you will need to rate each component what you need to get by and what you dream to have. I think you can get by with out a dedicated graphics card by playing games at the lowest quality settings and still use the LCD native resolution. Next I suggest go back in your junk closet and try to find AV receivers that are capable of handling digital audio. If you have three, you decrease the price by about $300. IMHO, card readers are not required for a setup. I suggest buy one unit that will work in each computer. Of course everybody in the household will be fighting over the device, but set rules where it should be placed. I think your dream components can wait for the upgrade budget that comes into play later.My opinion about Pioneer optical drives is they are poorly manufactured. I suggest change it to an ASUS optical drive. My Pioneer drive gave me problems at the beginning. The drive took hours to write a single layer DVD disc, so I use a 3rd party firmware to fix that. Then a few years later, it does not handle playing back movies from start to finish. My ASUS optical drive is lasting me 7 years and counting.
I doubt you need 600 GB of hard drive space. I think users will be waiting for programs to load up, I suggest downgrade the space and upgrade to low latency. I suggest a Western Digital 'Raptor' 150 GB or 75 GB. To store more data, setup a file server for everybody in the household to access files.
If you are thinking of over clocking the Phenom processor in the future, I suggest select motherboards with an EPS power connector. This does not guarantee the motherboard can handle the over clock or higher TDP processors, but provides a possibility.
I prefer Seasonic power supplies because they are high quality for their price. Also they are very energy efficient, regulate voltage well, filter the power well (low ripple voltage), universal voltage, puts less strain on your electrical system (circuit box and AC oultet) because of its active PFC feature. Power and Cooling power supplies are poor for the price. Be careful with Silverstone power supplies because they have a high minimum wattage rating.
psychobriggsy - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - link
If you read the article, you can see his logic for a lot of your points.I really really don't understand why a ten year old needs such a setup. I'm sure we all have stories about the 14" monitors we had when we were 10, and how the computer had a single 2" speaker built in, and the like. We coped and the systems were awesome.
My computer build for a ten year old would be my old system, handed down.
Does she have a 42" plasma TV and personal satellite TV in her room as well?
Kobaljov - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
Interesting article, but sometimes I didn't find the connections between the intended usage and the selected hw components. Look like the most common error in the "new PC" projects: performance (cost, power consumption, etc.) overkill.A Phenom CPU, 8 GB RAM, 640 GB HDD and a 8800 GT videocard is really needed for IM, MySpace, Sims, WoW, etc. in the next 3 years ?? I don't think so (maybe if the Sims 3 will use the CryEngine 2.. ;-)
"Just the normal daily life for a ten year old who apparently needs at least a 24" monitor just to keep track of the thirty or so open windows at any given time"
This come from a local PC Shop's marketing materials ? (The next "must have" will be the Optimus Maximus keyboard for word processing or a new Hi-Speed 256 GB SSD for listening online music) :-)
larson0699 - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
Utmost...