Motherboards
Our case dictates a uATX form factor motherboard. Fortunately for us, the choices are numerous for the socket AM2+ format we require. Since AMD has concentrated on (or been forced to) the low end sector the past couple of years, the chipset and motherboard suppliers have responded with some very good chipsets following the AMD 690G chipset launch last year. The two primary chipsets I focused on are the AMD 780G and NVIDIA GeForce 8200/8300. The supply situation is better with the AMD 780G at this point but the GF8200/8300 is a very completive offering.
Either chipset would work for our requirements. In fact, if these systems were not using discrete video cards, I would have chosen the 780G based upon the performance of its IGP. The GF8200 holds an advantage by offering 8-channel LPCM audio over HDMI compared to two-channel for the 780G, but with recent driver changes turning off 6-channel LPCM output, NV is effectively neutering their chipset for reasons we cannot explain. In the end, based on using a discreet graphics card, either chipset was fine for our configuration.
Now that I had settled the chipset question (sort of), it was time to find the right board for the right price. The de facto standard in this market sector right now is the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H, and rightfully so. It would have been very easy to just select that motherboard and end my search quickly. However, in this market sector there are alternate choices and I like to spread my money around to other suppliers at times. I had a request from a couple of family members to build them basic "SOHO" machines so I had a little leeway in ordering several uATX boards and then choosing which one I would use.
The Gigabyte board was first on the list, but it ended up with Anand for his Home Theater construction masterpiece. Even so, some very competent choices stayed at home. The Jetway 780G PA78GT3-DG and GF8200 PN78SM3-HL, Biostar TA780G M2+, Sapphire PI-AMDRS780G, and ASRock 780G A780FullDisplayPort all were used in personal system buildups. I would like to mention that the J&W JW-RS780UVD-AM2+ and Zotac GF8300 were highly sought after based upon test results but those products were not available in the US at time of purchase. Currently, the Jetway and Biostar products are in and out of stock at various e-tailors, but the others listed were in stock at several locations today.
I planned on a smooth "exit stage left" routine without saying which motherboards are staying in my personal systems, but I am sure somebody would have noticed the lack of commitment on the subject. In the end, the Biostar 780G is in my system and the Jetway GF8200 board is in my daughter's system. How did I come to that decision? It came down to the location of the PCI Express x1 slot on each board. This small design difference changed the original plan of installing the GF8200 board in my system and I will go over that decision shortly.
The Jetway 780G and Sapphire 780G are in systems for my parents, who are both active computer nuts well into their seventies now. The ASRock 780G product ended up in another system for testing. I will explain that in another blog shortly. I will sum up the motherboard choices by simply stating that there are other choices in the market worth considering before making a purchasing decision. These brands listed today may not be from Tier-1 suppliers, nor offer the greatest amount of features or overclocking capabilities, but so far they have performed extremely well as the heart and soul in these jack-of-all trades systems.
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deruberhanyok - Thursday, May 29, 2008 - link
Just wanted to say I've never really understood the collective first person pronouns ("we" etc) in the context of an article, even when I was doing it myself. It seems to be accepted in journalism, but if an article is written by one person I don't understand why it isn't written with the singular terms.Also, nice writeup!
strikeback03 - Thursday, May 29, 2008 - link
Myspace requires users to be at least 14, don't they? Are you encouraging your daughter to lie about her age already?gochichi - Thursday, May 29, 2008 - link
I wish I had found more value in this but I simply think these choices were pretty random. Whenever you include a sound card in a "budget system" you already lost me, particularly when the superior Q6600 is "out of budget" and you force the situation into an oddball 3-core processor... all of this for less than the price of the completely uneccessary/absurd sound card. My speakers were $150.00 a few months ago and there is simply no discernable difference between an Audigy and onboard sound, they both sound fantastic. (I made a mistake and purchased a sound card, I would never recommend it to anyone, certainly not anyone on any sort of budget... unless you were connecting it to $500+ of sound equipment).To me getting the best core components makes sense when "on a budget" rather than buying 8GB of RAM, buy 4GB and leave expanding to 8GB later. The oddball 3-core processor is pretty much non-upgradeable... it is replaceable, not upgradeable. I guess my main problem is with the Phenom choice... and to pretend that this is a budget driven decision is beyond me. But it feels more like a bribe induced decision (budget... you take the payout, it's good for your budget) than a logical decision, particularly for a system with 8GB of very fast RAM.
Taking the rest of the selection into account, you have the fast RAM, the fancy-pants power supply... why not spend $50.00 on Q6600 and get your 3.0Ghz+ quad-core system?
It's not the only random choice by any means, and calling this system a "budget system" is simply outdated, a budget computer system in 2008 means around $500.00 not around $1000.00. It is certainly a faux pas in this day and age to go above $500.00 and go AMD. I can't let that slide, and I'm not a fanboy either, I am just a reasonable guy that would buy a $75.00 AMD processor without flinching if it fit the need and the budget. AMD is a great choice for a one task system, particularly if that one task is playing bluray disks and media center because of the superior onboard graphics that are available. But for an 8GB of RAM workhorse?? Yikes!
Basically for the reader of this website, the choices are simply too arbitrary to be useful. I concede that we were warned that this would be a blog and not an article, but still.
Comdrpopnfresh - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - link
I feel something should be made of the fact that all the builds were overbudget. Even more so, I feel that mail in rebates should be used to allow for a component in the system (processing, graphics, storage, etc.) to be expanded a bit further. I feel the mail in rebates for the builds were used to minimize the already rampant budgets. Considering the companies that release the rebates will look for every possible way to void them, it isn't smart to treat them in this way.I've had the same problem in making systems to fit a budget envelope. However, a good change I think that could have been made is no graphics. The words that really stuck out with me are that the sims three and spore are upcoming. If the integrated gfx meet the needs, and the taxing demands have not been released, why not wait (esp. in the case of a computer for your child) to either get the same gfx upgrade for less, or more for the same?
I feel with current custom building, even with prices falling for components across the board, budgeting is the hardest part. I hope that this point is highlighted, because, even though this article shows the evils of this issue, it certainly brings it to the forefront nonetheless.
ishould - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
I would have liked to see a GPU with hybrid SLI technology chosen primarily because you said you don't use it for gaming much. Pairing the chipset with a 9600GT, while it may be a little more expensive, will likely make up the cost in power requirements multiple times over by not having to run 100W+ idle all the time. Just my 2 centskmmatney - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
It would seem to me that you would want a dual slot Video card, rather than a single slot, for an mATX system. That way you are blowing the video card heat out of the small case. Would a dual-slot card fit in the case?jmurbank - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
It seems you selected components that you desperately want to get for your next setup. To decrease the price of each setup, you will need to rate each component what you need to get by and what you dream to have. I think you can get by with out a dedicated graphics card by playing games at the lowest quality settings and still use the LCD native resolution. Next I suggest go back in your junk closet and try to find AV receivers that are capable of handling digital audio. If you have three, you decrease the price by about $300. IMHO, card readers are not required for a setup. I suggest buy one unit that will work in each computer. Of course everybody in the household will be fighting over the device, but set rules where it should be placed. I think your dream components can wait for the upgrade budget that comes into play later.My opinion about Pioneer optical drives is they are poorly manufactured. I suggest change it to an ASUS optical drive. My Pioneer drive gave me problems at the beginning. The drive took hours to write a single layer DVD disc, so I use a 3rd party firmware to fix that. Then a few years later, it does not handle playing back movies from start to finish. My ASUS optical drive is lasting me 7 years and counting.
I doubt you need 600 GB of hard drive space. I think users will be waiting for programs to load up, I suggest downgrade the space and upgrade to low latency. I suggest a Western Digital 'Raptor' 150 GB or 75 GB. To store more data, setup a file server for everybody in the household to access files.
If you are thinking of over clocking the Phenom processor in the future, I suggest select motherboards with an EPS power connector. This does not guarantee the motherboard can handle the over clock or higher TDP processors, but provides a possibility.
I prefer Seasonic power supplies because they are high quality for their price. Also they are very energy efficient, regulate voltage well, filter the power well (low ripple voltage), universal voltage, puts less strain on your electrical system (circuit box and AC oultet) because of its active PFC feature. Power and Cooling power supplies are poor for the price. Be careful with Silverstone power supplies because they have a high minimum wattage rating.
psychobriggsy - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - link
If you read the article, you can see his logic for a lot of your points.I really really don't understand why a ten year old needs such a setup. I'm sure we all have stories about the 14" monitors we had when we were 10, and how the computer had a single 2" speaker built in, and the like. We coped and the systems were awesome.
My computer build for a ten year old would be my old system, handed down.
Does she have a 42" plasma TV and personal satellite TV in her room as well?
Kobaljov - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
Interesting article, but sometimes I didn't find the connections between the intended usage and the selected hw components. Look like the most common error in the "new PC" projects: performance (cost, power consumption, etc.) overkill.A Phenom CPU, 8 GB RAM, 640 GB HDD and a 8800 GT videocard is really needed for IM, MySpace, Sims, WoW, etc. in the next 3 years ?? I don't think so (maybe if the Sims 3 will use the CryEngine 2.. ;-)
"Just the normal daily life for a ten year old who apparently needs at least a 24" monitor just to keep track of the thirty or so open windows at any given time"
This come from a local PC Shop's marketing materials ? (The next "must have" will be the Optimus Maximus keyboard for word processing or a new Hi-Speed 256 GB SSD for listening online music) :-)
larson0699 - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - link
Utmost...