This is also how I think the iOS apps should have gone. A vertical and horizontal snap grid.
I would have liked to see what the terminal showed and if root would be unlocked to all owners. It would be even nicer if this could run Android apps - that would certainly help their market presence.
theyve been working on moblin for years now and have gotten almost nowhere. now the biggest developer has dropped out. meego will never make it to the market, it will die a slow death. whats funny is that this was intels way of increasing their market which cut out microsoft and as it turns out, ms is the one that put the final nail in meego's coffin by stripping off nokia. its no tragedy though there are already a few too many os's out there
apparently nokia will still be spending around half a billion a year on Meego after the changes, so i'd hope the consumer sees something tangible for all that investment!
theyve been working on moblin for years now and have gotten almost nowhere. now the biggest developer has dropped out. meego will never make it to the market, it will die a slow death. whats funny is that this was intels way of increasing their market which cut out microsoft and as it turns out, ms is the one that put the final nail in meego's coffin by stripping off nokia. its no tragedy though there are already a few too many os's out there
The interesting thing to look for (IMHO) is: will the next Atom FINALLY be the one that says "WTF are we carrying around this baggage from 35 years ago" and ditches everything except 64-bit mode. Not booting in 8086 mode, not 286 weirdness, no SMM stupidity, no 36-bit PAE, no virtual 86 mode, etc etc.
Get rid of all that crap, and have the only compatibility junk be - 8087 - MMX - segments
Secondly, put compiler writers and OS vendors on notice that the next major rev will get rid of the the three crud items mentioned above.
If Intel is willing to do this, we'll see that they are serious about taking on ARM. If, on the other hand, the forces of "it is vitally important that some idiot be able to run a copy of his 1979 CPM programs on Atom" win, well, it'll be clear that waking for Atom to do anything interesting in this space is a waste of time.
Actually they should add in "clean" 32 bit instructions. Ones that can use the extra registers that 64 bit offers. For programs that do not need more than four gigabytes of memory there are advantages to a 32 bit memory model. Even a 16 bit mode could be useful for tiny programs that need no more than 64k of address space but those are few and far between these days. But then that is why we have ARM. A quad core A15 ARM cpu is really going to be very interesting. But with Microsoft talking about Windows on ARM I just have to ask. Why? There is a lot more Linux, Android/Linux and IOS applications already running on ARM. What do I need Windows for? That will be as useful as Windows on Mips and Alpha was. AKA Not at all.
"While I know that comparing version numbers isn't the most scientific thing in the world, it's the easiest way for me to point out that MeeGo is no where near the maturity level of Android."
Anand, seriously? You're better than that.
While it may or may not be as mature, that has nothing to do with the version number. Every project has its own versioning system - some go 10^n decimals for rollouts. Not to mention that, even if they tracked their versions the same as Android, their base version could have been vastly superior. For instance, they could have started with Android 3, improved on it and called it MeeGo 1.0
I'm not even sure how Intel/Moblin accounts for their versions. Is it based on time, features, bug fixes, number of updates?
I think the important factor is comparing the feature-set, how long the OS has been made available to the public, and how long Intel has been using it; which all, as you've said, are still immature compared to Android.
"Intel believes that launching applications to later access data with them is silly and you should instead be presented with the data you want and it should launch any necessary application for you. It's a shift from the app centric model of today's smartphone/tablet OSes to a data centric model."
Apple couldn't make this fly with OpenDoc and Publish/Subscribe. MS poured vastly more money and effort into OLE, to no avail. I'd say these two efforts show that, regardless of what marketers or ubernerds might feel, people today are perfectly happy with "application centric computing", and that, when presented with data centric computing they've been not much interested.
I don't have a religious view on this. I don't really understand why both OpenDoc and OLE failed. It just seems to me that there's a whole lot of history being ignored here.
Of course what Intel MIGHT mean is something substantially weaker than the claim they seem to be making. On OSX (and I assume Windows) while browsing my data files, I can simply double click on them to launch the relevant app --- nothing new there, nothing new there since at least 1984. A stronger version of this claim would be something like "files are not user visible, only 'data'". In that case you have something like iOS, where Apple has likewise tried to make files not a visible part of the UI. And Apple has not (IMHO) had great success with this. In simple situations it works OK, but it falls apart as soon as users become more ambitious. An obvious example of this on iOS is the problem of PDFs, where you might have a dozen different apps, each with their own data store which includes PDFs, and no way to read a PDF in one app from another app. I suspect that Apple, over the next few years is going to have to back down in some way or another from this "files are invisible (and siloed)" attitude. And I find it unlikely that Intel can come up with a set of UI paradigms that solves this problem where Apple could not.
True story! I get a voicemail and it puts a red number on my phone app. I click on this bit of data and voila, my phone app launches. Same with mail and text!
Seriously though, what does a voicemail look like in its raw state before I click on it to launch an app to view it?
I realize it is rough, but they DO need to play catch up. I'm thinking they may have missed the bus, and are probably hosed after Nokia dumped MeeGo.
My break-down as I see it:
WP7: Pretty but not open. I can't comment on the usability aspects.
Android: Meh in the default looks department, but open and customizable to fit the user's tastes and workflow. UI is coming along though and constantly refined.
iOS: Apple really has always been UI centric. They have been anal-retentive about their UIs and User-experiences to the point of being dogmatic in it's closed approach.
If they intend to compete with these three OSes then I think they need to spend time on a Delorian project and go "Back to the Future". I'm glad someone is pointing to a unified architecture for multiple hardware platforms, but in the end they should have said something and done something sooner to be taken seriously. I'm on the they should stick to what they know which is chips and hardware.
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15 Comments
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softdrinkviking - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
I like the idea of the up-down/right-left infinite desktop, and I would like to try it out.I see the similarities with WP7, but I also feel like the MeeGo UI looks way more "open."
vol7ron - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
This is also how I think the iOS apps should have gone. A vertical and horizontal snap grid.I would have liked to see what the terminal showed and if root would be unlocked to all owners. It would be even nicer if this could run Android apps - that would certainly help their market presence.
sdffds6546 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link
theyve been working on moblin for years now and have gotten almost nowhere. now the biggest developer has dropped out. meego will never make it to the market, it will die a slow death. whats funny is that this was intels way of increasing their market which cut out microsoft and as it turns out, ms is the one that put the final nail in meego's coffin by stripping off nokia. its no tragedy though there are already a few too many os's out thereR3MF - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
apparently nokia will still be spending around half a billion a year on Meego after the changes, so i'd hope the consumer sees something tangible for all that investment!http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/nokia...
OBLAMA2009 - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
theyve been working on moblin for years now and have gotten almost nowhere. now the biggest developer has dropped out. meego will never make it to the market, it will die a slow death. whats funny is that this was intels way of increasing their market which cut out microsoft and as it turns out, ms is the one that put the final nail in meego's coffin by stripping off nokia. its no tragedy though there are already a few too many os's out therename99 - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
The interesting thing to look for (IMHO) is:will the next Atom FINALLY be the one that says "WTF are we carrying around this baggage from 35 years ago" and ditches everything except 64-bit mode. Not booting in 8086 mode, not 286 weirdness, no SMM stupidity, no 36-bit PAE, no virtual 86 mode, etc etc.
Get rid of all that crap, and have the only compatibility junk be
- 8087
- MMX
- segments
Secondly, put compiler writers and OS vendors on notice that the next major rev will get rid of the the three crud items mentioned above.
If Intel is willing to do this, we'll see that they are serious about taking on ARM.
If, on the other hand, the forces of "it is vitally important that some idiot be able to run a copy of his 1979 CPM programs on Atom" win, well, it'll be clear that waking for Atom to do anything interesting in this space is a waste of time.
lwatcdr - Friday, February 18, 2011 - link
Actually they should add in "clean" 32 bit instructions. Ones that can use the extra registers that 64 bit offers.For programs that do not need more than four gigabytes of memory there are advantages to a 32 bit memory model. Even a 16 bit mode could be useful for tiny programs that need no more than 64k of address space but those are few and far between these days.
But then that is why we have ARM. A quad core A15 ARM cpu is really going to be very interesting.
But with Microsoft talking about Windows on ARM I just have to ask. Why?
There is a lot more Linux, Android/Linux and IOS applications already running on ARM. What do I need Windows for?
That will be as useful as Windows on Mips and Alpha was.
AKA Not at all.
vol7ron - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
"While I know that comparing version numbers isn't the most scientific thing in the world, it's the easiest way for me to point out that MeeGo is no where near the maturity level of Android."Anand, seriously? You're better than that.
While it may or may not be as mature, that has nothing to do with the version number. Every project has its own versioning system - some go 10^n decimals for rollouts. Not to mention that, even if they tracked their versions the same as Android, their base version could have been vastly superior. For instance, they could have started with Android 3, improved on it and called it MeeGo 1.0
I'm not even sure how Intel/Moblin accounts for their versions. Is it based on time, features, bug fixes, number of updates?
I think the important factor is comparing the feature-set, how long the OS has been made available to the public, and how long Intel has been using it; which all, as you've said, are still immature compared to Android.
nafhan - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
A comment in the article makes me think this would make an awesome OS for a future Nintendo console: the "MeeGo Wii 2"Sorry...
Calabros - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
wrong person to demonstrate! you should give the cam to him and yourself play with Meego :-)name99 - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
"Intel believes that launching applications to later access data with them is silly and you should instead be presented with the data you want and it should launch any necessary application for you. It's a shift from the app centric model of today's smartphone/tablet OSes to a data centric model."Apple couldn't make this fly with OpenDoc and Publish/Subscribe.
MS poured vastly more money and effort into OLE, to no avail.
I'd say these two efforts show that, regardless of what marketers or ubernerds might feel, people today are perfectly happy with "application centric computing", and that, when presented with data centric computing they've been not much interested.
I don't have a religious view on this. I don't really understand why both OpenDoc and OLE failed. It just seems to me that there's a whole lot of history being ignored here.
Of course what Intel MIGHT mean is something substantially weaker than the claim they seem to be making. On OSX (and I assume Windows) while browsing my data files, I can simply double click on them to launch the relevant app --- nothing new there, nothing new there since at least 1984.
A stronger version of this claim would be something like "files are not user visible, only 'data'". In that case you have something like iOS, where Apple has likewise tried to make files not a visible part of the UI. And Apple has not (IMHO) had great success with this. In simple situations it works OK, but it falls apart as soon as users become more ambitious. An obvious example of this on iOS is the problem of PDFs, where you might have a dozen different apps, each with their own data store which includes PDFs, and no way to read a PDF in one app from another app.
I suspect that Apple, over the next few years is going to have to back down in some way or another from this "files are invisible (and siloed)" attitude. And I find it unlikely that Intel can come up with a set of UI paradigms that solves this problem where Apple could not.
Azethoth - Monday, February 14, 2011 - link
True story! I get a voicemail and it puts a red number on my phone app. I click on this bit of data and voila, my phone app launches. Same with mail and text!Seriously though, what does a voicemail look like in its raw state before I click on it to launch an app to view it?
Munnin - Saturday, February 26, 2011 - link
I realize it is rough, but they DO need to play catch up. I'm thinking they may have missed the bus, and are probably hosed after Nokia dumped MeeGo.My break-down as I see it:
WP7:
Pretty but not open. I can't comment on the usability aspects.
Android:
Meh in the default looks department, but open and customizable to fit the user's tastes and workflow. UI is coming along though and constantly refined.
iOS:
Apple really has always been UI centric. They have been anal-retentive about their UIs and User-experiences to the point of being dogmatic in it's closed approach.
If they intend to compete with these three OSes then I think they need to spend time on a Delorian project and go "Back to the Future". I'm glad someone is pointing to a unified architecture for multiple hardware platforms, but in the end they should have said something and done something sooner to be taken seriously. I'm on the they should stick to what they know which is chips and hardware.
(ppshopping) - Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - link
welcomelili53 - Friday, March 11, 2011 - link
welcome