Everyone waiting for a new CPU with high IPC, low power consumption, iGPU RDNA3, lots of cache memory, AI units... and AMD relaunches a ZEN2 CPU... :facepalm:
Exactly. These will likely be up against Intel N5105 / N100 / N200 etc. They will likely be a fair bit faster with much better GPUs. IF the price is comparable, I know what i'd have.
Makes perfect sense. They are likely making this on 7nm meaning it would have to be Zen 2 or 3. Zen 2 takes less die area than Zen 3. Not worth the cost of porting Zen 4 to 7nm.
6nm is just 7nm with fixes so you're mostly right, but it is 6nm not 7nm. Porting Zen 2 to 7nm was a bit wild in the first place (should've just waited for Zen 3 since Ryzen 4000 products barely existed), but might as well use it now that it's ported.
Backporting Zen 4 to 6nm is probably way worse than the other way around.
This is a 6 nm chip, so it's not fabbed at GlobalFoundries. Their finest process is still 12 nm. It seems AMD has managed to whittle that deal away to almost nothing. What are they still making at 12 nm? I figured it would be Chromebook chips for the next 5 years...
AMD has had a really pathetic entry into Chromebooks. Infact, Rory Reed made AMD a Windows company. It led it so pathetic that its Ryzen CPU threading was not properly identified by Windows 10 even that AMD had to issue patch instead of MS first. Compared to what MS did in choosing AMD64 over IA64 and forcing INTL to adopt the former than a new x64 ISA.
I would call the below the 4th phase of AMD Chromebook CPU/APU introduction
The first set of chromebook specific processors were from the Bulldozer family and produced in obsolete 28nm tech, like a cruel joke A4-9120 and A6-9220 series.
The second attempt was a little better at 12nm, but atleast 1.5 full generations behind using the Zen2 architecture in the form of 3xxx CPUs. Acer Spin 514, Asus Flip CX5, HP c645 etc. This was the first with Zen2 architecture. The problem was that on battery, there was a 20% drop in performance instead of intelligently adjusting performance like the early part of this century with very few models from different brands that actually it passed.
The third attempt was much better as it brought the 5xxx series, Zen 3 into the mix. The problem is that I knew of only Acer attempting to use this platform in the Spin 514 series. Worse, they made this far expensive compared to "better" Intel equivalents. Want proof?
Latter has better CPU, build quality, screen, storage, Wifi, Stylus support, Thunderbolt ports, HDMI over the AMD despite being cheaper (I know it is a special discount but I have seen this price point many a times). Which sane person would buy the pathetic AMD version over Intel?
The only thing that AMD has had a clear lead over Intel is graphics but there too they have been milking the RDNA architecture for "tooooo loooo...ng" till INTC started to meet/exceed with their Xe GPUs. This clearly shows that AMD is no better than INTL in milking money from its customers and is only the cheaper because it is not an Escort but a downstream call girl ;-) With cloud gaming from NVIDIA and whatever is left from Google, you do not need powerful graphic cores in the chromebook any longer rendering, the only saving advantage disappears, making AMD platform a cheap hooker :-D
The 7xxx C is the 4th attempt and seeing that Dell and Asus the only signers for this it too will enter the graveyard. In the earlier 2 attempts, AMD was trying to use spent fab nodes thus in theory it can be cheaper. But with 7xxx being in 6nm which though not the latest, but a decent node, I do not foresee it being cheap which means that while I feel that the 7xxx series might be decent performing, I do not expect it to be cheap and when priced will be more expensive than the Intel equivalents.
It's a cheap APU for Chromebooks and other ChromeOS devices, which are currently often shipped using bottom of the barrel Celerons that are basically the Atom line.
This is all the performance you need in a cheap, low-power laptop. Fast dual/quad-core, acceptable integrated graphics, AV1 decode. The lack of AI acceleration is a little disappointing since that's ubiquitous in ARM chips, but by the time people really care they will probably offer that in a future successor to Mendocino.
Only the price matters. If it's lower than $200, great, if it's more than $400, wait.
TSMC 6nm is refined 7nm node (that Zen3 was produced on); hardly an "older node". They could have gone with Zen3 if sticking with "older node" was all that mattered.
Zen 2 already got ported to 7nm and Zen 3 is not more efficient than Zen 2 for this product, especially when you consider the CCX size of Zen 2 is perfect for a quad core top-of-stack SKU.
Having had the chance of using a 7320U (w/ 8GB soldered ram), I felt that it was just one step above manufactured e-waste. It was very power efficient, even on wifi playing back a video stream, but it was also slightly sluggish in win11.
Unless these chromebooks are extremely cheap for the 7520C and 7320C model, I don't see why anyone would get one. You would be better off getting older model Ryzen 5 4000U/5000U/6000U series laptop. Even an intel mobile 10 or 11 series would have way better performance, at the cost of battery life.
You'd think that the 7320U is better than a 4500U, right? Except it's not. 7320U has 4 CPU cores, and 2EU GPU 4500U has 6 CPU cores, and 6 core GPU Having LPDDR5 4800 doesn't help against DDR4 3200, when the GPU is this cut down.
Just go look at the benchmark results for the two. 4500U smashes 7320U by quite a disappointing margin, and this lack of performance is noticeable in everything it does.
Except that Chrome OS is effectively malware due to the pervasive, perverse, prolific data collection. While I am certain Microsoft would do the same if they could, Google has a much wider reach and is far more effective about getting to know everything about you even after you tell them you don't consent to data collection.
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tafreire - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Everyone waiting for a new CPU with high IPC, low power consumption, iGPU RDNA3, lots of cache memory, AI units... and AMD relaunches a ZEN2 CPU... :facepalm:RMSe17 - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
yea, I don't know about their strategy... I think Intel is using newest architecture across the boardNeuralNexus - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Chromebooks aren't worth the resources to allocate the newest architecture.dontlistentome - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Exactly. These will likely be up against Intel N5105 / N100 / N200 etc. They will likely be a fair bit faster with much better GPUs. IF the price is comparable, I know what i'd have.hecksagon - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Makes perfect sense. They are likely making this on 7nm meaning it would have to be Zen 2 or 3. Zen 2 takes less die area than Zen 3. Not worth the cost of porting Zen 4 to 7nm.lmcd - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
6nm is just 7nm with fixes so you're mostly right, but it is 6nm not 7nm. Porting Zen 2 to 7nm was a bit wild in the first place (should've just waited for Zen 3 since Ryzen 4000 products barely existed), but might as well use it now that it's ported.Backporting Zen 4 to 6nm is probably way worse than the other way around.
spaceship9876 - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
they have that pesky globalfoundaries wafer agreement to fulfill.scineram - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
What the fuck are you on about?lmcd - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
This got ported to 6nm with RDNA 2.Einy0 - Thursday, June 1, 2023 - link
This is a 6 nm chip, so it's not fabbed at GlobalFoundries. Their finest process is still 12 nm. It seems AMD has managed to whittle that deal away to almost nothing. What are they still making at 12 nm? I figured it would be Chromebook chips for the next 5 years...Wereweeb - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
You're not everyone. The low-cost low-power market is a very important one, and I'm glad to see more competition.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Chromebooks up to this point either use skylake based pentiums or piledriver based APUs. Zen 2 is a huge step up in both cases.rocketbuddha - Sunday, May 28, 2023 - link
Not quite true.AMD has had a really pathetic entry into Chromebooks. Infact, Rory Reed made AMD a Windows company. It led it so pathetic that its Ryzen CPU threading was not properly identified by Windows 10 even that AMD had to issue patch instead of MS first. Compared to what MS did in choosing AMD64 over IA64 and forcing INTL to adopt the former than a new x64 ISA.
I would call the below the 4th phase of AMD Chromebook CPU/APU introduction
The first set of chromebook specific processors were from the Bulldozer family and produced in obsolete 28nm tech, like a cruel joke A4-9120 and A6-9220 series.
The second attempt was a little better at 12nm, but atleast 1.5 full generations behind using the Zen2 architecture in the form of 3xxx CPUs. Acer Spin 514, Asus Flip CX5, HP c645 etc. This was the first with Zen2 architecture. The problem was that on battery, there was a 20% drop in performance instead of intelligently adjusting performance like the early part of this century with very few models from different brands that actually it passed.
The third attempt was much better as it brought the 5xxx series, Zen 3 into the mix. The problem is that I knew of only Acer attempting to use this platform in the Spin 514 series. Worse, they made this far expensive compared to "better" Intel equivalents. Want proof?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-chromebook-spin-... - $549
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-chromebook-spin-... -$499
Latter has better CPU, build quality, screen, storage, Wifi, Stylus support, Thunderbolt ports, HDMI over the AMD despite being cheaper (I know it is a special discount but I have seen this price point many a times). Which sane person would buy the pathetic AMD version over Intel?
The only thing that AMD has had a clear lead over Intel is graphics but there too they have been milking the RDNA architecture for "tooooo loooo...ng" till INTC started to meet/exceed with their Xe GPUs. This clearly shows that AMD is no better than INTL in milking money from its customers and is only the cheaper because it is not an Escort but a downstream call girl ;-)
With cloud gaming from NVIDIA and whatever is left from Google, you do not need powerful graphic cores in the chromebook any longer rendering, the only saving advantage disappears, making AMD platform a cheap hooker :-D
The 7xxx C is the 4th attempt and seeing that Dell and Asus the only signers for this it too will enter the graveyard. In the earlier 2 attempts, AMD was trying to use spent fab nodes thus in theory it can be cheaper. But with 7xxx being in 6nm which though not the latest, but a decent node, I do not foresee it being cheap which means that while I feel that the 7xxx series might be decent performing, I do not expect it to be cheap and when priced will be more expensive than the Intel equivalents.
psychobriggsy - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
It's a cheap APU for Chromebooks and other ChromeOS devices, which are currently often shipped using bottom of the barrel Celerons that are basically the Atom line.nandnandnand - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
This is all the performance you need in a cheap, low-power laptop. Fast dual/quad-core, acceptable integrated graphics, AV1 decode. The lack of AI acceleration is a little disappointing since that's ubiquitous in ARM chips, but by the time people really care they will probably offer that in a future successor to Mendocino.Only the price matters. If it's lower than $200, great, if it's more than $400, wait.
trivik12 - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Why not bulldozer. At least the name is cooler :-)I dont know why AMD is doing this. Why not just do Rembrandt die with fewer cores. That will be more efficient and faster.
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
Because older zen 2 tech is WAY cheaper to build on older nodes, and chromebooks are a low margin market? Duh.Arnulf - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
TSMC 6nm is refined 7nm node (that Zen3 was produced on); hardly an "older node". They could have gone with Zen3 if sticking with "older node" was all that mattered.nandnandnand - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
I think TSMC wants to refine all 7nm production to 6nm. It's probably not more expensive, especially with the 18% logic density increase.scineram - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
That is not all that matters. Zen 2 cores are much smaller.lmcd - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
Zen 2 already got ported to 7nm and Zen 3 is not more efficient than Zen 2 for this product, especially when you consider the CCX size of Zen 2 is perfect for a quad core top-of-stack SKU.Wereweeb - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
And more expensive.psychobriggsy - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
Because that would be a whole new design?It will come one day in the future, when people will be moaning about the Athlon 9040C series using Zen 4 and RDNA3 instead of Zen 6 and RDNA5.
ballsystemlord - Tuesday, May 23, 2023 - link
I wonder, did they disabled Pluton in these processors?lmcd - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
Probably just different firmware bits for similar security silicon. Some integration with CoreBoot or whatever and Google's secure update system.meacupla - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
Having had the chance of using a 7320U (w/ 8GB soldered ram), I felt that it was just one step above manufactured e-waste.It was very power efficient, even on wifi playing back a video stream, but it was also slightly sluggish in win11.
Unless these chromebooks are extremely cheap for the 7520C and 7320C model, I don't see why anyone would get one. You would be better off getting older model Ryzen 5 4000U/5000U/6000U series laptop. Even an intel mobile 10 or 11 series would have way better performance, at the cost of battery life.
lmcd - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
You're delusional about people's performance needs, and also about what the issue in question was.Individual SKUs with 7320s might be e-waste, but it would only be due to poor cooling solutions.
It is deeply ironic you list the Ryzen 5 4000U as a better fit for this, as the 7320 is basically a Ryzen 4000U series chip with upgraded graphics.
meacupla - Thursday, May 25, 2023 - link
You'd think that the 7320U is better than a 4500U, right?Except it's not.
7320U has 4 CPU cores, and 2EU GPU
4500U has 6 CPU cores, and 6 core GPU
Having LPDDR5 4800 doesn't help against DDR4 3200, when the GPU is this cut down.
Just go look at the benchmark results for the two. 4500U smashes 7320U by quite a disappointing margin, and this lack of performance is noticeable in everything it does.
TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, May 24, 2023 - link
Windows 11 is a bloated powerhog of an OS, chrome OS runs far better on cheaper solutions.meacupla - Thursday, May 25, 2023 - link
Yeah, and my point is, why don't you just buy a used or old stock laptop with a 4500U/5500U/6500U, and install chromeOS onto that?PeachNCream - Thursday, May 25, 2023 - link
Except that Chrome OS is effectively malware due to the pervasive, perverse, prolific data collection. While I am certain Microsoft would do the same if they could, Google has a much wider reach and is far more effective about getting to know everything about you even after you tell them you don't consent to data collection.colinstu - Saturday, May 27, 2023 - link
Anyone else hear "Mendocino" and instantly think of Intel's 300A Celeron that OC'd great?Einy0 - Thursday, June 1, 2023 - link
I had one, my very first self built PC. A 300Mhz chip that ran at 450Mhz with almost no effort. That was a LONG time ago!