"As previously mentioned, the RTX 3050 is using a salvaged GA106 die that’s roughly cut down to GA107 specifications." Would it be wrong to make assumptions about Samsung's 8nm error rates based on this?
We don't know if they have tons of chips or not, they have more demand than supply so they added a new SKU using failed chips. That's not even a big deal, that's binning.
Just a friendly reminder GA 106 was already cut down for the RTX 3060, and there was a professional sku using an even more cut down GA 106. Normally Nvidia would not go below 3072 cuda cores for such a gpu, and Nvidia already cuts down more than AMD. It really makes you wonder if there is an issue with Samsung 8lpp, especially when Nvidia chose to launch a GA 106 RTX 3050 instead of a GA 107 RTX 3050 with specialty models using the GA 106 gpu.
It's possible, but I think it's more likely that this is an Emergency Edition designed primarily to shit up the launch of the 6500 XT. It seems to have worked - people are praising this for being ~20% faster, while it's often 80%+ more expensive and doesn't appear to be available in any reasonable quantities, ergo there probably aren't a lot of GA106 dies that are defective enough (and yet there are /some/, which is not a great look).
It's MSRP is only $250 vs $200 for the 6500xt, and it's ~20% faster, int he most AMD favoring benchmarks. Any game that uses substantial PCIe bandwidth, ESPECIALLY on any 3.0 platform, or any game that pushes over 4GB VRAM, and the 6500x can sink as low as the RX 560. From 2017.
AMD loves them more, which can be seen with 4 GB and a 4x PCI-e interface that makes it slower than an ancient cut-down Polaris. The fake ray tracing gimmickry is the icing.
Holy cow I hope you're wrong about the $400 street price. This thing is already way overpriced compared to its predecessors. Shucks, the 1650 was already a price jump over the 1050. I'd still be willing to pay $250-$300 for one (and hope to), but $400 is absurd. If that's what happens we're going to need a 3040 or 3030 to be an actual budget card...
Between the chip shortage and the US economy taking a crap this is the new normal.
The gaming market will correct itself a bit and lower system requirements, make games run on lower end hardware if they ever plan on selling games. Everything was beginning to hit a plateau and it will only get worse in the near future.
That being said, the current level of hardware can run gorgeous games like Days Gone and Cyberpunk at settings matching the consoles...
Umm, the economy isn't the problem when people are gladly paying double MSRP. It's supply and demand. And for the past year or two, miners have driven the latter.
"If more people could buy more electronics, companies would have invested more in foundries" 1) They are investing more in foundries. 2) The time lag between investment and working high-end fab is huge, at least 3 years. 3) You have to know that the spike in demand will last long enough to cover the ~5 years of operating that fab as a cutting-edge manufacturing plant 24/7 that you'll need to pay off the investment.
It really is not as simple as "see more demand, make more chips".
Economy taking a crap? It's doing so well they need to cool it off with interest rate hikes. Economy grew like 6% last year (that's the fastest since 1984, and contrary to popular belief, in 2020 the economy wasn't particularly bad, just fragmented as microbusinesses and the service industry were disproportionally hit)
1. nvidia won't make those cards. 2. even if nvidia did make those cards, they'd be so bad, that you would only be doing 720p gaming with it. 3. You can always wait to see what Intel is offering.
That's called an iGPU. It doesn't make economic sense for them to launch a 3030 when it would be a product with low ass margins in the middle of a shortage crisis where you can push margins really high.
When there were issues with Intel integrated graphics (drivers, incomplete implementations, ...) - or when applications like Photoshop had acceleration on only some graphic cards - it made sense to have a low end discrete card, even relatively equivalent in performance to the iGPU.
This is a 130W card. There's plenty of room for a 75W card that's significantly more powerful than an iGPU and doesn't require external power connectors.
There is, but Nvidia aren't very interested in giving it to you. AMD nearly did, but then they decided to punch clocks up higher to justify what the card will actually cost in practice, so it's not 75W.
Actual pricing ought to be the make-or-break of this card. In the UK the 6500 XT is hovering around £230, which makes it the same price as a brand-new GTX 1650. That makes the relative value of the 6500 XT pretty good even if you have a PCIe 3.0 motherboard, accepting the fact that right now no graphics card offers good value for money.
If the 3050 can come in under £300 then its value-for-money proposition makes sense. However, the GTX 1660 Super currently sells for £400 and the 1660 Ti sells at £440. I don't think the 3050 is going to sell for less than £400, and at that price it's out of the reach of many buyers and offering poor value compared with the 6500 XT.
Unfortunately it looks like the damage has already been done. By the time the 3050 arrives here, all anyone will remember is the barrage of early reviews of the 6500 XT panning its performance on PCIe 3.0 and comparing its imaginary MSRP to Nvidia's even-more-imaginary MSRP, compared with the favourable reviews of the 3050 that are still pretending it will be available for only $50 more than MSRP.
Reviewers have been treating AMD with kid gloves. Tech Spot refused to even publish the data on the 6500’s ray tracing, on the absurd claim that it would be ‘cruel’ to expose AMD’s scam.
I would take a decent performaing card @ 200W !! We need a poor power ratio card for gamer to be successfull. I dont care paying 1 x200W (or 2x 200W for that matter) for playing actual game! But crypto guys wont
And that's why I hesitate to call it entry-level. Ignoring for the moment that NVIDIA's true entry-level cards are typically the 30/40 class (e.g. GT 1030). It's basically a cut down 60-class card, which is not quite the same thing as a 50-class card with a purpose-built die.
Being a cut-down 60-series card certainly does good things for performance, but it does come at a power consumption penalty.
Hm....did anyone see the bojective limits to what a 50 tier card could be?
Because, see, I remember when the 550ti was a 130 watt product. I remember when the GTX 950 was a 90w product. Being 50 doesnt mean it must be a certian power level.
As for price, well, all currencies saw massive printing in 2020. Hyperinflation is a thing.
Everybody and their dog knows not to put the 6500 XT in a PCIe 3.0 board. People have been so busy talking about that they've neglected to point out that for everyone else, it's the closest thing to a budget card that exists from this generation.
You really can't think of anything? You must not have tried very hard. Here are some markets that I thought of in about 5 seconds: 1) Any machine that just needs basic video output. For example, Threadripper systems that are not being used for GPGPU compute, Office machines with CPUs (no iGPUs) such as the 5900X, 5950X, or any Intel F sku. 2) Low budget systems built using the cheaper Zen 2 CPUs such as the 3300X, Intel systems with the 32EU iGPUs, or future budget Rembrandt/Zen 4 APUs. 3) Laptops. This GPU was clearly designed to to be an MX550/MX570 competitor.
1) If you want a basic video output machine, a gt710, 730, or 1030 will be significantly better on the count of being cheaper, consuming less power, and having more video outputs. On AMD's side even the rx460/560 would much better for such a task. 2) On Amazon US the cheapest Zen 2 CPU is $187. Intel comet lake is significantly cheaper, and doesn't have PCI-E 4.0. Future AMD products don't exist now. Also, if you are discussing OEM products, this is a DIY card. 3)The RX 6500XT is a desktop graphics card. Navi 24 being designed for mobile is irrelevant when it is brought to desktop. And on desktop it's not good, unless paired with PCI-E 4.0.
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dwillmore - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
So, this is a new GF9600GSO?meacupla - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
Pros: It's not good at mining, and it's not a RX6500XTCons: It's still mighty expensive for something that barely does 1080p gaming
meacupla - Sunday, January 30, 2022 - link
spoke too soon, it's good at mining. RIP gamers.CrystalCowboy - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
"As previously mentioned, the RTX 3050 is using a salvaged GA106 die that’s roughly cut down to GA107 specifications."Would it be wrong to make assumptions about Samsung's 8nm error rates based on this?
0ldman79 - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
We don't know if they have tons of chips or not, they have more demand than supply so they added a new SKU using failed chips. That's not even a big deal, that's binning.Otritus - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
Just a friendly reminder GA 106 was already cut down for the RTX 3060, and there was a professional sku using an even more cut down GA 106. Normally Nvidia would not go below 3072 cuda cores for such a gpu, and Nvidia already cuts down more than AMD. It really makes you wonder if there is an issue with Samsung 8lpp, especially when Nvidia chose to launch a GA 106 RTX 3050 instead of a GA 107 RTX 3050 with specialty models using the GA 106 gpu.Spunjji - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
It's possible, but I think it's more likely that this is an Emergency Edition designed primarily to shit up the launch of the 6500 XT. It seems to have worked - people are praising this for being ~20% faster, while it's often 80%+ more expensive and doesn't appear to be available in any reasonable quantities, ergo there probably aren't a lot of GA106 dies that are defective enough (and yet there are /some/, which is not a great look).Oxford Guy - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
The 6500 is so bad that Nvidia didn’t have to do more than release something competent.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, February 1, 2022 - link
It's MSRP is only $250 vs $200 for the 6500xt, and it's ~20% faster, int he most AMD favoring benchmarks. Any game that uses substantial PCIe bandwidth, ESPECIALLY on any 3.0 platform, or any game that pushes over 4GB VRAM, and the 6500x can sink as low as the RX 560. From 2017.The RTX 3050 is a far more competent product.
shabby - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
Post reviews here...https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/01/nvidia-rtx-...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforc...
https://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidia-evga-geforc...
Flunk - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
I can't help noticing, but the MSRP for this card is $100 more than the one it replaces.Hxx - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
out of love from nvidia for the gaming communityOxford Guy - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
AMD loves them more, which can be seen with 4 GB and a 4x PCI-e interface that makes it slower than an ancient cut-down Polaris. The fake ray tracing gimmickry is the icing.coburn_c - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
25% Tariff and shipping containers cost 3x as much.xprojected - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
And the benchmarks so far have it faster than the $20 cheaper (in theory) 1660 Super and just below the 2060 so... can't complain too much.domboy - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
Holy cow I hope you're wrong about the $400 street price. This thing is already way overpriced compared to its predecessors. Shucks, the 1650 was already a price jump over the 1050. I'd still be willing to pay $250-$300 for one (and hope to), but $400 is absurd. If that's what happens we're going to need a 3040 or 3030 to be an actual budget card...0ldman79 - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
Between the chip shortage and the US economy taking a crap this is the new normal.The gaming market will correct itself a bit and lower system requirements, make games run on lower end hardware if they ever plan on selling games. Everything was beginning to hit a plateau and it will only get worse in the near future.
That being said, the current level of hardware can run gorgeous games like Days Gone and Cyberpunk at settings matching the consoles...
xprojected - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
Umm, the economy isn't the problem when people are gladly paying double MSRP. It's supply and demand. And for the past year or two, miners have driven the latter.Wereweeb - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
What do you think determines the supply? In the end, it's the economy.If more people could buy more electronics, companies would have invested more in foundries, and we wouldn't be going through a shortage.
Gigaplex - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
The US economy taking a dump should be reducing demand, not supply. The leading foundries aren't even in the US.Spunjji - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
"If more people could buy more electronics, companies would have invested more in foundries"1) They are investing more in foundries.
2) The time lag between investment and working high-end fab is huge, at least 3 years.
3) You have to know that the spike in demand will last long enough to cover the ~5 years of operating that fab as a cutting-edge manufacturing plant 24/7 that you'll need to pay off the investment.
It really is not as simple as "see more demand, make more chips".
Samus - Saturday, January 29, 2022 - link
Economy taking a crap? It's doing so well they need to cool it off with interest rate hikes. Economy grew like 6% last year (that's the fastest since 1984, and contrary to popular belief, in 2020 the economy wasn't particularly bad, just fragmented as microbusinesses and the service industry were disproportionally hit)This is simple microeconomics: supply and demand.
Oxford Guy - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
Printing money in huge amounts is growth? It grows inflation, for sure.meacupla - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
1. nvidia won't make those cards.2. even if nvidia did make those cards, they'd be so bad, that you would only be doing 720p gaming with it.
3. You can always wait to see what Intel is offering.
Wereweeb - Wednesday, January 26, 2022 - link
That's called an iGPU. It doesn't make economic sense for them to launch a 3030 when it would be a product with low ass margins in the middle of a shortage crisis where you can push margins really high.Calin - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
When there were issues with Intel integrated graphics (drivers, incomplete implementations, ...) - or when applications like Photoshop had acceleration on only some graphic cards - it made sense to have a low end discrete card, even relatively equivalent in performance to the iGPU.Gigaplex - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
This is a 130W card. There's plenty of room for a 75W card that's significantly more powerful than an iGPU and doesn't require external power connectors.Spunjji - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
There is, but Nvidia aren't very interested in giving it to you. AMD nearly did, but then they decided to punch clocks up higher to justify what the card will actually cost in practice, so it's not 75W.Oxford Guy - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
AMD is fond of making tiny dies and clocking beyond the optimal level. It’s good for the company’s margin, not so good for buyers of the products.Spunjji - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
Actual pricing ought to be the make-or-break of this card. In the UK the 6500 XT is hovering around £230, which makes it the same price as a brand-new GTX 1650. That makes the relative value of the 6500 XT pretty good even if you have a PCIe 3.0 motherboard, accepting the fact that right now no graphics card offers good value for money.If the 3050 can come in under £300 then its value-for-money proposition makes sense. However, the GTX 1660 Super currently sells for £400 and the 1660 Ti sells at £440. I don't think the 3050 is going to sell for less than £400, and at that price it's out of the reach of many buyers and offering poor value compared with the 6500 XT.
Unfortunately it looks like the damage has already been done. By the time the 3050 arrives here, all anyone will remember is the barrage of early reviews of the 6500 XT panning its performance on PCIe 3.0 and comparing its imaginary MSRP to Nvidia's even-more-imaginary MSRP, compared with the favourable reviews of the 3050 that are still pretending it will be available for only $50 more than MSRP.
Oxford Guy - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
Reviewers have been treating AMD with kid gloves. Tech Spot refused to even publish the data on the 6500’s ray tracing, on the absurd claim that it would be ‘cruel’ to expose AMD’s scam.Gigaplex - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
66% more expensive and consumes 75% more power than a 1650? This isn't in the same *50 tier.MrKuff - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
I would take a decent performaing card @ 200W !! We need a poor power ratio card for gamer to be successfull. I dont care paying 1 x200W (or 2x 200W for that matter) for playing actual game! But crypto guys wontRyan Smith - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
And that's why I hesitate to call it entry-level. Ignoring for the moment that NVIDIA's true entry-level cards are typically the 30/40 class (e.g. GT 1030). It's basically a cut down 60-class card, which is not quite the same thing as a 50-class card with a purpose-built die.Being a cut-down 60-series card certainly does good things for performance, but it does come at a power consumption penalty.
Abort-Retry-Fail - Friday, January 28, 2022 - link
Yup. Not really the low end of discreet desktop ... more mid-level 60/50 GA106 with Samsung 8nm - 276 mm²
I guess they could rebrand to GT 3030 with the GeForce GTX 1650 (TU117 -- 200 mm²) dies, or keep binning GA107/S until a launch.
Was there ever a GT 2050 ?
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, February 1, 2022 - link
Hm....did anyone see the bojective limits to what a 50 tier card could be?Because, see, I remember when the 550ti was a 130 watt product. I remember when the GTX 950 was a 90w product. Being 50 doesnt mean it must be a certian power level.
As for price, well, all currencies saw massive printing in 2020. Hyperinflation is a thing.
Oxford Guy - Thursday, January 27, 2022 - link
Anandtech needs to put PCI-e interface speed in charts, now that hobbling that is the new thing.8x shouldn't matter but the AMD card is very hobbled with its 4x on a PCI-e 3 board.
Spunjji - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
Everybody and their dog knows not to put the 6500 XT in a PCIe 3.0 board. People have been so busy talking about that they've neglected to point out that for everyone else, it's the closest thing to a budget card that exists from this generation.Oxford Guy - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
No, the market expects the card to fully support PCI-e.AMD is pulling a fast one by releasing a card posing as an upgrade while drastically downgrading basic performance expectations.
Scamming with ray tracing is also extremely uncool.
Why you’re spinning so hard for this card…
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, February 1, 2022 - link
Hmmm...it's a budget card, and AMD's budgt APUs and boards are all limited to PCIe 3.0.So everybody and their dog knows not to put an AMD budget video card on an AMD budget board. Interesting. So what is the market then?
vlad42 - Tuesday, February 1, 2022 - link
You really can't think of anything? You must not have tried very hard. Here are some markets that I thought of in about 5 seconds:1) Any machine that just needs basic video output. For example, Threadripper systems that are not being used for GPGPU compute, Office machines with CPUs (no iGPUs) such as the 5900X, 5950X, or any Intel F sku.
2) Low budget systems built using the cheaper Zen 2 CPUs such as the 3300X, Intel systems with the 32EU iGPUs, or future budget Rembrandt/Zen 4 APUs.
3) Laptops. This GPU was clearly designed to to be an MX550/MX570 competitor.
Otritus - Wednesday, February 9, 2022 - link
1) If you want a basic video output machine, a gt710, 730, or 1030 will be significantly better on the count of being cheaper, consuming less power, and having more video outputs. On AMD's side even the rx460/560 would much better for such a task.2) On Amazon US the cheapest Zen 2 CPU is $187. Intel comet lake is significantly cheaper, and doesn't have PCI-E 4.0. Future AMD products don't exist now. Also, if you are discussing OEM products, this is a DIY card.
3)The RX 6500XT is a desktop graphics card. Navi 24 being designed for mobile is irrelevant when it is brought to desktop. And on desktop it's not good, unless paired with PCI-E 4.0.
smitheric - Tuesday, February 8, 2022 - link
I want to buy it! Hope I will be able to play HTML% games https://slamxhype.com/top-5-benefits-of-html5-game... Thank you for this detailed reviewsmitheric - Tuesday, February 8, 2022 - link
Sorry, I meant HTML5 :)