been waiting for a long time for the first "oled" gaming monitor. because oled is faster than nt, in theory. also no ghosting effects at high frames. thats the biggest problem with high refresh rate monitors. but oled isnt here yet. still waiting for them to work on the oled burn in issues...
As I understand it, the main problem is there's an appreciable ramp-up time when moving from a fully black(AKA turned-off) situation to a light-emitting state. You could probably get around it by idling at a very low brightness.
Hm, so they demo an 54.6-inch panel but the plant they build/equip is 5.5G? I would guess large panels (above 32-inch) would have to wait until they build a 10.5G-plant maybe 3-4 years from now. By then I would guess their Taiwanese and Chinese competitors would already be producing ~55-65-inch OLED by using an inkjet process. Can't really imagine any commercial production of 54.6-inch panels will happen on 5.5G. JOLED will need to find a niche to stay relevant, will be interesting to see if they can attract enough investment though.
This 54.6-inch panel is for demonstration purposes only are there are no plans by JOLED to mass produce TV displays. In fact, JOLED and Panasonic will be licensing their technologies for TV display production, while continuing to focus on medium-sized displays using the 5.5G substrate size you mentioned.
They are still in a place where they need to attract investment, but I can't see anyone licensing tech from JOLED. All their competitors has already years of research and development into OLED inkjet printing. Hopes of a 10.5G plant of their own has been reported on though, they just don't have the money and the showcase is kinda odd as it targets potential investors but is a product they couldn't produce in years even if they get the needed investment and thus something their competitors would be able to bring to market much sooner.
Disappointed they didn't release a 4K variant alongside the Asus Pro w/ GSync. 1080p is extremely underwhelming; I suppose people can repurpose the Asus ProArt OLED monitor to use for casual gaming until an OLED or MicroLED 4K monitor becomes available.
Asus' yet unreleased professional monitor with the above mentioned 4K 21.6" panel has a reported 0.1 ms response time. That's 15 to 20 times faster than the fastest LCD monitor (though with a crappy TN panel). Even if JOLED's 1080p panel has a 0.05 ms response time would the difference matter or be perceived by anyone?
1. There are two totally different methods of response time measurements: GtG (pixel transition time in milliseconds) and MPRT (pixel static time in milliseconds). MPRT generates more motion blur nowadays than GtG does. Most 0.1ms GtG OLED Monitors are still 16.7ms MPRT
2. I can see a human-visible difference of 0.5ms MPRT and 1.0ms MPRT. You can see it for yourself with an NVIDIA ULMB display, with certain TestUFO motion tests at 3000 pixels/second such as www.testufo.com/photo?#photo=toronto-map.png&pps=3000 .... TestUFO panning map test becomes unreadable even in ULMB/LightBoost at 3000 pixels/second because the strobe backlight flash is still 1ms-1.5ms per refresh. Now, go into monitor menus and adjust "ULMB Pulse Width" down to less than 50% (this neighborhood of adjustment translates to 0.5ms MPRT, according to photodiode oscilloscope tests) and the street name labels become readable!
This is because Blur Busters Law is 1ms MPRT = 1 pixel of motion blur per 1000 pixels/sec, also quoted in Google Scholar in a more complex formula ( http://lcd.creol.ucf.edu/Publications/2017/JAP%201... ) as follows: MPRT (ms) = BEW (pixel) /v (pixel/frame) x Tf (ms/frame) .... However, frame visibility time can be independent of the refresh rate, as seen from LCD strobe backlights, so the formula is simplified as pixel visibility time (frame visibility time) and is distilled down to the "Blur Busters Law" formula.
1ms MPRT at 3000 pixels/sec = 3 pixels of display motion blur trail 0.5ms MPRT at 3000 pixels/sec = 1.5 pixels of display motion blur trail
Which is why the 6-point-text street name labels aren't readable at anything 1ms MPRT or higher (default NVIDIA ULMB/LightBoost), but becomes readable at 0.5ms MPRT (ULMB configured to Pulse Width 50%).
The vast majority are still playing with 1080p. So why not bully them into buying 4K? "Aww look at you you little causal dork you! You need 4K to not be a casual dork anymore!" You think its a joke, but thats exactly whats happening.
55" 4K OLED TVs like the LG C7 are within striking range of $1000, I can't understand why they don't make 31" computer monitors from 1/4 of a 65" HDTV panel.
There's a few reasons - there's forum posts around the Internet about people that have tried to use a OLED TV as a computer monitor, and it hasn't worked out that well: Even though the refresh rate is high, input lag is significant (~21ms for the LG C7), and the TVs experience burn when used for gaming/PC tasks. Plus, I'm willing to bet that color reproduction isn't great or that accurate - maybe you couldn't notice for gaming, but maybe you would.
Some of those issues could be addressed by LG (or others) with a customized controller for monitors, but some can't.
Also keep in mind that for an LCD panel, the cost of the actual LCD panel itself is just a fraction of total BoM costs - so you can't just take 1/4 the cost of a TV as a starting point.
OLED tech is not gamer friendly due to its burn-in problem. Games are way to prone to images on screen in static locations and gamers trend on playing for many many hours (per day), often same game(s), so the static image isn't even changing frequently due to game switching. So, until OLED solves the burn-in problem.. this tech is DOA.
The high end gaming hardware market does not seem to mind buying the latest and greatest on a yearly basis anyway.
It will definitely be a niche product until both the price and longevity improve a lot, but I expect there's at least enough of a market for them to be worth selling.
Was going to post just this. I bought an LG OLED TV to use as a computer monitor a bit over a year ago, and burn-in marks from things like the windows taskbar, desktop background picture, tiling window borders, HUDs from games, etc, have become a constant distraction. I still keep it because the colors and contrast ratio are hard to let go of for watching movies in a dark room once you get used to using an OLED and start taking it for granted. But the next time I get an OLED it'll be exclusively for watching movies and nothing else.
I don't get it. How much were LG's OLED 1080p TVs back when they still exist? One can simply take those and tweak, brand them as monitors. LG doesn't seem to have 4k OLED less than 55 inches, it could be too large for some as a monitor. Still, you get OLED monitor without fuss and excess cost.
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austinsguitar - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
been waiting for a long time for the first "oled" gaming monitor. because oled is faster than nt, in theory. also no ghosting effects at high frames. thats the biggest problem with high refresh rate monitors. but oled isnt here yet. still waiting for them to work on the oled burn in issues...skavi - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
OLED definitely has ghosting in dark scenes.Lord of the Bored - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
As I understand it, the main problem is there's an appreciable ramp-up time when moving from a fully black(AKA turned-off) situation to a light-emitting state. You could probably get around it by idling at a very low brightness.RSAUser - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
You could get around by having it one hex off black so it's not turned off.Its why we moved our interfaces away from black.
0ldman79 - Thursday, January 3, 2019 - link
Not a bad idea.Then we lose the true black of OLED. I guess it could be set as an option in the monitor, speed vs accuracy. That would be acceptable.
I know my S4 ghosts when scrolling with black on the screen. It's pretty obvious.
Beaver M. - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
Even CRTs had ghosting. Its just that you could barely see it and only on a completely dark screen with something white moving on it.Penti - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
Hm, so they demo an 54.6-inch panel but the plant they build/equip is 5.5G? I would guess large panels (above 32-inch) would have to wait until they build a 10.5G-plant maybe 3-4 years from now. By then I would guess their Taiwanese and Chinese competitors would already be producing ~55-65-inch OLED by using an inkjet process. Can't really imagine any commercial production of 54.6-inch panels will happen on 5.5G. JOLED will need to find a niche to stay relevant, will be interesting to see if they can attract enough investment though.kaigaiguy - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
This 54.6-inch panel is for demonstration purposes only are there are no plans by JOLED to mass produce TV displays. In fact, JOLED and Panasonic will be licensing their technologies for TV display production, while continuing to focus on medium-sized displays using the 5.5G substrate size you mentioned.Penti - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
They are still in a place where they need to attract investment, but I can't see anyone licensing tech from JOLED. All their competitors has already years of research and development into OLED inkjet printing. Hopes of a 10.5G plant of their own has been reported on though, they just don't have the money and the showcase is kinda odd as it targets potential investors but is a product they couldn't produce in years even if they get the needed investment and thus something their competitors would be able to bring to market much sooner.chada - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
I believe you spelled the word ants incorrectly. There is no "g" in the word ants. Nor is there an "m" nor an "e" nor an "r." Such editing.lilkwarrior - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Disappointed they didn't release a 4K variant alongside the Asus Pro w/ GSync. 1080p is extremely underwhelming; I suppose people can repurpose the Asus ProArt OLED monitor to use for casual gaming until an OLED or MicroLED 4K monitor becomes available.lilkwarrior - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
For ESports, don't quite get why 1440p wasn't pursued.haukionkannel - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
1080p is faster...Santoval - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Asus' yet unreleased professional monitor with the above mentioned 4K 21.6" panel has a reported 0.1 ms response time. That's 15 to 20 times faster than the fastest LCD monitor (though with a crappy TN panel). Even if JOLED's 1080p panel has a 0.05 ms response time would the difference matter or be perceived by anyone?Valantar - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
I've seen reports that the Asus monitor uses this very panel.mdrejhon - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
Chief Blur Buster and inventor of TestUFO here. The short answer is yes. See https://www.blurbusters.com/1000hz-journeyTwo things:
1. There are two totally different methods of response time measurements: GtG (pixel transition time in milliseconds) and MPRT (pixel static time in milliseconds). MPRT generates more motion blur nowadays than GtG does. Most 0.1ms GtG OLED Monitors are still 16.7ms MPRT
2. I can see a human-visible difference of 0.5ms MPRT and 1.0ms MPRT. You can see it for yourself with an NVIDIA ULMB display, with certain TestUFO motion tests at 3000 pixels/second such as www.testufo.com/photo?#photo=toronto-map.png&pps=3000 .... TestUFO panning map test becomes unreadable even in ULMB/LightBoost at 3000 pixels/second because the strobe backlight flash is still 1ms-1.5ms per refresh. Now, go into monitor menus and adjust "ULMB Pulse Width" down to less than 50% (this neighborhood of adjustment translates to 0.5ms MPRT, according to photodiode oscilloscope tests) and the street name labels become readable!
This is because Blur Busters Law is 1ms MPRT = 1 pixel of motion blur per 1000 pixels/sec, also quoted in Google Scholar in a more complex formula ( http://lcd.creol.ucf.edu/Publications/2017/JAP%201... ) as follows: MPRT (ms) = BEW (pixel) /v (pixel/frame) x Tf (ms/frame) .... However, frame visibility time can be independent of the refresh rate, as seen from LCD strobe backlights, so the formula is simplified as pixel visibility time (frame visibility time) and is distilled down to the "Blur Busters Law" formula.
1ms MPRT at 3000 pixels/sec = 3 pixels of display motion blur trail
0.5ms MPRT at 3000 pixels/sec = 1.5 pixels of display motion blur trail
Which is why the 6-point-text street name labels aren't readable at anything 1ms MPRT or higher (default NVIDIA ULMB/LightBoost), but becomes readable at 0.5ms MPRT (ULMB configured to Pulse Width 50%).
Beaver M. - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
A low Input lag is more important, yes.Tams80 - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
1080p has been demoted to 'casual' gaming has it now?I think you need to get back in touch with planet Earth, and how most people live on it.
Beaver M. - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
The vast majority are still playing with 1080p. So why not bully them into buying 4K?"Aww look at you you little causal dork you! You need 4K to not be a casual dork anymore!"
You think its a joke, but thats exactly whats happening.
MTEK - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
@Beaver M. -- that's why I stopped upgrading when I was bullied into upgrading from EGA to VGA. Never again!!Beaver M. - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
Depends on if you needed it or not and if hardware was even capable to use it properly.Let me guess, youre not working in public relations.
fazalmajid - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
55" 4K OLED TVs like the LG C7 are within striking range of $1000, I can't understand why they don't make 31" computer monitors from 1/4 of a 65" HDTV panel.sing_electric - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
There's a few reasons - there's forum posts around the Internet about people that have tried to use a OLED TV as a computer monitor, and it hasn't worked out that well: Even though the refresh rate is high, input lag is significant (~21ms for the LG C7), and the TVs experience burn when used for gaming/PC tasks. Plus, I'm willing to bet that color reproduction isn't great or that accurate - maybe you couldn't notice for gaming, but maybe you would.Some of those issues could be addressed by LG (or others) with a customized controller for monitors, but some can't.
Also keep in mind that for an LCD panel, the cost of the actual LCD panel itself is just a fraction of total BoM costs - so you can't just take 1/4 the cost of a TV as a starting point.
r3loaded - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
* OLED* 4K
* HDR
* 120Hz
* Adaptive Sync
* 24-32 inches
Make it so and I'll throw money at it.
Beaver M. - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
4K useless still, because of too slow hardware.Make it 1440p and 240 Hz (shouldnt be a problem with OLED).
Oh and add G-Sync.
EnzoFX - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
*Freesyncseascape195 - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
OLED tech is not gamer friendly due to its burn-in problem. Games are way to prone to images on screen in static locations and gamers trend on playing for many many hours (per day), often same game(s), so the static image isn't even changing frequently due to game switching. So, until OLED solves the burn-in problem.. this tech is DOA.notashill - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
The high end gaming hardware market does not seem to mind buying the latest and greatest on a yearly basis anyway.It will definitely be a niche product until both the price and longevity improve a lot, but I expect there's at least enough of a market for them to be worth selling.
lewisl9029 - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
Was going to post just this. I bought an LG OLED TV to use as a computer monitor a bit over a year ago, and burn-in marks from things like the windows taskbar, desktop background picture, tiling window borders, HUDs from games, etc, have become a constant distraction. I still keep it because the colors and contrast ratio are hard to let go of for watching movies in a dark room once you get used to using an OLED and start taking it for granted. But the next time I get an OLED it'll be exclusively for watching movies and nothing else.zodiacfml - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
I don't get it. How much were LG's OLED 1080p TVs back when they still exist?One can simply take those and tweak, brand them as monitors.
LG doesn't seem to have 4k OLED less than 55 inches, it could be too large for some as a monitor. Still, you get OLED monitor without fuss and excess cost.
Gunbuster - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
A display that can burn in for medical imaging? Yeah no thanks there...