It would have been interesting to see some bargain basement memory in the comparison. Is there a specification below which we start to see a difference?
I dunno, I think it gets the job done. The takeaway is the same as it has been for a decade... Higher bandwidth memory with higher latency provides very little actual performance improvements.
No, not really. The slowest and faster RAM here aren't that far off. What it really tells us is that minimal increases in RAM performance can bring noticeable performance improvements but only in memory-heavy applications. Which is pretty much exactly what you'd expect.
There is a difference in two memory heavy applications. The RAM drive shows a ~20% benefit and one of the image processing benchmarks shows ~10% benefit. There will be a tiny number of people doing very specific applications who might notice the difference.
Not sure what other games it applies to but in Overwatch the RAM speed actually has a pretty significant impact on FPS when you start going very high FPS.
It just seems a bit weird to test those speeds. G.Skill RipJaws SoDIMM DDR4-3200 CL18-18-18-43 are available in 8GB form for the same price as regular DDR4-3200 RAM and the 16GB variant is only slight more expensive (would be 5th in the price ranking with regular DDR4-3200 RAM). Is that just a weird German price thing? I was even considering buying them with an adapter just so I can have some more potential usability for the future. :D
IMHO small things that does not even make the cpu leave lower power state happens faster, page loading, folder browsing etc... might be just bias or simple "better timings" that was also the case for me. Still I feel something different in day-to-day stuff.
Yep. The only difference for me is that I only buy Crucial. This comes from personal experience of AMAZING customer support from them.
I had one of their sticks die on me once after 8 years of use. I called in and was shocked to talk to someone in the US. Since they didn't make the same RAM I had anymore, they offered to replace all 4 sticks so that I had a matching set, even though 3 of the 4 sticks were fine. And since the replacements were slower timings without heat spreaders, they offered to double the capacity to cover the difference. They upgraded me from 4x 1-gig sticks of DDR2 to 4x 2-gigs of DDR2 without me raising any fuss - this was all customer services idea. That made me a customer for life.
Yeah, I too am a big Crucial fan because of reasons like this, from my experience as well. Not quite as generous as your story, but never any kind of trouble getting support for their hardware.
But these benchmarks really show that performance should not be even remotely near the top of the list of reasons to pick one RAM part over another. Brand/warranty/customer service is a real way to differentiate and justify a given price.
Looking at the tested offerings, it is obvious why there was so little performance gain, the Latency/clock relations are just off the chart, for the 3066 CL20 literally.
It is somewhat frustrating to see all of this work done on a case that doesn't make sense to examine first.
If the original question is "When does memory performance matter to CPUs?" then the place to start is at the extreme, not somewhere in the middle. If it was found that an 8 core 4 GHz x86 processor with whatever cache architecture and two channels of memory was memory bandwidth or latency starved THEN it would make sense to start moving down the stack and identify when it is no longer a concern. The conclusion to draw from this is much less meaningful to most any reader. There are like five people on the planet choosing between more expensive and cheaper memory kits for SFF systems.
Might make more sense with AMD APUs. You'd probably get a much better return from overclocking the memory than the CPU, given how bandwidth-starved they can be.
Whatever happened to ranking memory by its performance rating, to determine how objectively good it is? For anyone who doesn't know/remember, performance rating = (memory frequency / CAS latency), and higher = better.
It's sad that in this day and age, my 2x8GB DDR3-1600 CL8 (with no RGB LEDs or unnecessary heatsinks) has a higher PR than any of these DDR4 kits. It's even sadder that today's reviews of memory that "overclock" it, just concentrate on pushing up the frequency instead of trying to tighten the CAS timings, because the latter is where you'll see the most benefit.
All you are calculating here is the actual latency, since CAS latency is expressed in cycles. What this doesn't account for is the actual memory speed (ie. bandwidth).
Just using your formula, a 1600/8 and 3200/16 module should be equal, right? But one of those offers twice the raw memory throughput, at about similar absolute latency (ie. performance rating).
It is a good idea to keep in mind that latency and frequency interact, but not in a way you suggest. Many people look at things like 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18 and would instinctively say that the second set has a higher latency, while in reality the actual latency is quite similar, and you get more bandwidth.
I think its less cringe-worthy than reading another tone-deaf article about the old fat guy wrestling equivalent in the form of obsolete full or micro ATX systems when we live in a world where a lot of people don't even own a PC because their phone has replaced it.
No one cares about custom DIMM timings on anything but full-size tower PCs. People who don't own a PC tower don't have any reasonable options to customize anything.
I recently read a laughable blog post by a guy that did manage to upgrade the CPU in his laptop. Joy! So great, right?
Nah. It just ran hot and he had to limit the clock speed. What an upgrade.
Please benchmark graphics performance whenever you test sff systems. No, the the dedicated GPU, the igp. This is the most relevant test consumers will consider whenever we buy laptops or sff PC's. How much graphics performance can I get from ram upgrades for each tier?
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
25 Comments
Back to Article
BedfordTim - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
It would have been interesting to see some bargain basement memory in the comparison. Is there a specification below which we start to see a difference?goatfajitas - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
I dunno, I think it gets the job done. The takeaway is the same as it has been for a decade... Higher bandwidth memory with higher latency provides very little actual performance improvements.qlum - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
To add some qualifiers to what you said:In regards to cpu performance
on intel's core achitecture
IGP performance, AMD, certain memory limited workloads tell a different story.
goatfajitas - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
"on intel's core achitecture"Agreed.
Flunk - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
No, not really. The slowest and faster RAM here aren't that far off. What it really tells us is that minimal increases in RAM performance can bring noticeable performance improvements but only in memory-heavy applications. Which is pretty much exactly what you'd expect.goatfajitas - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
"No, not really. The slowest and faster RAM here aren't that far off."That is what I said. Barely noticeable even in synthetic benchmarks.
BedfordTim - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
There is a difference in two memory heavy applications. The RAM drive shows a ~20% benefit and one of the image processing benchmarks shows ~10% benefit.There will be a tiny number of people doing very specific applications who might notice the difference.
peterfares - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Not sure what other games it applies to but in Overwatch the RAM speed actually has a pretty significant impact on FPS when you start going very high FPS.https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/9srhx5...
Not sure what what speed the benefits stop, but improvements were still easily seen at 3200MHz.
Death666Angel - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
It just seems a bit weird to test those speeds. G.Skill RipJaws SoDIMM DDR4-3200 CL18-18-18-43 are available in 8GB form for the same price as regular DDR4-3200 RAM and the 16GB variant is only slight more expensive (would be 5th in the price ranking with regular DDR4-3200 RAM). Is that just a weird German price thing? I was even considering buying them with an adapter just so I can have some more potential usability for the future. :Ddeil - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
IMHO small things that does not even make the cpu leave lower power state happens faster, page loading, folder browsing etc...might be just bias or simple "better timings" that was also the case for me. Still I feel something different in day-to-day stuff.
cygnus1 - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
How does anyone look at those memory benchmarks and justify buying anything other than the cheapest RAM that meets minimum spec?Yuriman - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Pretty much agree. Good to know, though.nwrigley - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Yep. The only difference for me is that I only buy Crucial. This comes from personal experience of AMAZING customer support from them.I had one of their sticks die on me once after 8 years of use. I called in and was shocked to talk to someone in the US. Since they didn't make the same RAM I had anymore, they offered to replace all 4 sticks so that I had a matching set, even though 3 of the 4 sticks were fine. And since the replacements were slower timings without heat spreaders, they offered to double the capacity to cover the difference. They upgraded me from 4x 1-gig sticks of DDR2 to 4x 2-gigs of DDR2 without me raising any fuss - this was all customer services idea. That made me a customer for life.
cygnus1 - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Yeah, I too am a big Crucial fan because of reasons like this, from my experience as well. Not quite as generous as your story, but never any kind of trouble getting support for their hardware.But these benchmarks really show that performance should not be even remotely near the top of the list of reasons to pick one RAM part over another. Brand/warranty/customer service is a real way to differentiate and justify a given price.
koaschten - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
I found this handy graphic on reddit some time ago:https://i.imgur.com/lbPIkiW.png
Looking at the tested offerings, it is obvious why there was so little performance gain, the Latency/clock relations are just off the chart, for the 3066 CL20 literally.
koaschten - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
source: https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/9mlwbn/ram...yes, this is DIMM not SO-DIMM, but shows the differences nicely.
willis936 - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
It is somewhat frustrating to see all of this work done on a case that doesn't make sense to examine first.If the original question is "When does memory performance matter to CPUs?" then the place to start is at the extreme, not somewhere in the middle. If it was found that an 8 core 4 GHz x86 processor with whatever cache architecture and two channels of memory was memory bandwidth or latency starved THEN it would make sense to start moving down the stack and identify when it is no longer a concern. The conclusion to draw from this is much less meaningful to most any reader. There are like five people on the planet choosing between more expensive and cheaper memory kits for SFF systems.
GreenReaper - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
Might make more sense with AMD APUs. You'd probably get a much better return from overclocking the memory than the CPU, given how bandwidth-starved they can be.The_Assimilator - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Whatever happened to ranking memory by its performance rating, to determine how objectively good it is? For anyone who doesn't know/remember, performance rating = (memory frequency / CAS latency), and higher = better.It's sad that in this day and age, my 2x8GB DDR3-1600 CL8 (with no RGB LEDs or unnecessary heatsinks) has a higher PR than any of these DDR4 kits. It's even sadder that today's reviews of memory that "overclock" it, just concentrate on pushing up the frequency instead of trying to tighten the CAS timings, because the latter is where you'll see the most benefit.
nevcairiel - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
All you are calculating here is the actual latency, since CAS latency is expressed in cycles. What this doesn't account for is the actual memory speed (ie. bandwidth).Just using your formula, a 1600/8 and 3200/16 module should be equal, right? But one of those offers twice the raw memory throughput, at about similar absolute latency (ie. performance rating).
It is a good idea to keep in mind that latency and frequency interact, but not in a way you suggest. Many people look at things like 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18 and would instinctively say that the second set has a higher latency, while in reality the actual latency is quite similar, and you get more bandwidth.
cyberguyz - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
To me watching SFF overclocking and benchies is kinda like watching midget wrestling matches. Always worth a giggle.CheapSushi - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Odd analogy but okay.PeachNCream - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
I think its less cringe-worthy than reading another tone-deaf article about the old fat guy wrestling equivalent in the form of obsolete full or micro ATX systems when we live in a world where a lot of people don't even own a PC because their phone has replaced it.Zan Lynx - Wednesday, December 5, 2018 - link
No one cares about custom DIMM timings on anything but full-size tower PCs. People who don't own a PC tower don't have any reasonable options to customize anything.I recently read a laughable blog post by a guy that did manage to upgrade the CPU in his laptop. Joy! So great, right?
Nah. It just ran hot and he had to limit the clock speed. What an upgrade.
Elm5tbgb - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
Please benchmark graphics performance whenever you test sff systems. No, the the dedicated GPU, the igp. This is the most relevant test consumers will consider whenever we buy laptops or sff PC's. How much graphics performance can I get from ram upgrades for each tier?