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  • jjj - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Knowing Intel, they are likely to price the flagship 6 cores at 499$ and try to upsell customers.
    There isn't much of a point in doing more than that, from their perspective.
  • Gothmoth - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    yeah and intel has done all that for years... and for what a 5-10% performance bump... give me a rest.

    it´s pure marketing scheme to milk the customers....
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    They've done two things all those years:

    1 - mercilessly milking consumers
    2 - sitting on their hands

    I am so glad I can finally buy a different brand high performance CPUs, with both performance and value being superior to intel.
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Forgot 3 - coming up with unnecessary new chipsets
  • Alexvrb - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    My main issue with their chipsets is locking out overclocking on all but the highest end chipsets, which are deployed in high-end boards. I'm a budget overclocking kind of guy, and the reason the unlocked Pentiums and i3s are a no-go for me is total platform cost. Even a locked i5 is often a better deal at the end of the day than an unlocked i3 and "Z" board. I might build a Ryzen 3 system and upgrade to a Zen+ with more cores down the road.
  • haukionkannel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    The owerclocked 6 core may require beefier electricity system than old 4 cores, so that may explain the new chipset also. You would need new MB in anyway. Otherwise there could be problems burning old MBs to crisps...
    All in all there Are not new features that would require it. Pci4 is not ready, no new memory system is ready yet. USB 3.2 is not yet ready. So no new features...
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Considering a 1800X octacore barely needs more power than a i7...

    LMAO.
  • milli - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Overclocking requires a Z-platform, okay. But what really annoys me, is that they even limit memory speed on the non-Z boards.
  • Alexvrb - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Running above the IMC's rated speeds is... overclocking! All overclocking should be opened up to mid-range chipsets, like AMD and their B-series.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Ryzen 5 1400 is a better value than Ryzen 3, SMT works way better than intel HT.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Also 1500X has the highest IPC if you just want a quad core, 4 cores with 16MB of L3 cache, 4MB of L3 cache per core, half per core on 1400 or Ryzen 7.
  • 10101010 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    You also forgot that for more than a decade, Intel has put a tremendous effort into the spyware engines embedded in their processors. AMD is little or no better in this regard, even going to the lengths of embedding an ARM 'security' core into many of their processors.
  • lmcd - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    You got any extra tinfoil over there for me, too?
  • The_Assimilator - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Intel Z270 has 24 PCIe 3.0 lanes for connectivity, as opposed to a grand total of... 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes (effectively 4 PCIe 3.0) that X370 has. Since X370 has no networking built in, you already lose one of those lanes to a LAN controller, which means you have at maximum 3 PCIe 3.0 lanes for use with an NVMe SSD, and therefore you can use at maximum one of these devices. It gets even worse with the lower-end Zen chipsets, which have even fewer lanes.

    Intel's Flex-IO configuration of their chipset also allows motherboard manufacturers to customise their boards. For example, a manufacturer could offer a Z270 motherboard with 6 M.2 slots and no USB 3 ports, but that's simply not possible with X370.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    I don't see why it matters that something isn't possible with X370 which mbd vendors would never do. :D Your rationale didn't need an extreme example to make the point.
  • mariush - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    The cpu has 24 pci-e lanes, 16 for graphics, 4 reserved for m.2 (or can be split in 2+2 or 2+1+1 for m.2 + lan + something but nobody does) and 4 reserved for chipset.

    So you have a fast m.2 right from the start. Any m.2 created by chipset would be slower (higher latency) compared to a m.2 connected directly to processor.

    The chipset has enough pci-e lanes to add a x4 and an x1 slot to the board while still having enough lanes left for onboard devices.

    It's good enough for consumers, no need for up to 24 lanes which then all merge in a weak x2..x4 equivalent link to the CPU..

    It's also more consumer friendly, unlike Intel solutions where if you use some m.2 slot you lose some SATA slots on the motherboard or a pci-e x1 slot works only if you switch an m.2 slot from pci-e x4 to x2 / x1 and you only figure that out if you read the motherboard manual... because of the way the HSIO lanes in chipset are re-rerouted depending on what you enable ... this is bad usability.
  • JasonMZW20 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Those are all shared between one x4 3.0 link to the chipset. I don't really see an advantage to that.

    But, here's the thing, Intel advertises the total number of PCIe lanes at the chipset, even those used by SATA/USB/LAN, which are not available to users to use for AICs or M.2s. Z270 has 12-14 usable once all accessory ports are installed, IIRC.

    X370
    8 2.0 lanes (1 x4 3.0 = 2 x4 2.0) + 4 3.0 lanes for M.2 on Ryzen (12 total)

    Z270
    14 3.0 lanes (virtualized) limited to x4 max
    - This requires an enormous amount of PCIe switching capability and has some processor overhead. There are no PLX chips involved here, so that x4 link can be pretty saturated. So, Intel is just juggling that x4 link around, as not many things will require constant use of it.
  • MagpieSVK - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Exactly this two chipsets are booth limited by PCie 3.0 x4 connection there is no difference in max available bandwith. Switching those four PCie lines around doesnt magicaly create additional bandwith.
  • lmcd - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Thank you for your reminder that it's not all roses in the AMD corner right now.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    The AMD approach is pretty straightforward and hassle free for the user.
  • Kvaern1 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Speaking of unnecessary chipsets, can anyone explain to me why the Kaby Lake AVX downclock option coudn't be enabled on Skylake/z170 setups via a BIOS update?
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Not very likely... When the list price of the 6-core Skylake-X Core i7-7800X is $389.
  • Gothmoth - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    not really a surprise when you know intel.

    they always thought "we have a loyal customer base that is not very bright" let´s milk them.

    honestly, looking around the web today i see intel fanboys defending this decision from intel by saying coffee lake would need a new chipset to show it´s full potential.... ROTFL.

    you have to love such customers as a company.......
  • Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Or, you know, it could be because Cannon Lake is adding native support for USB 3.1 Gen 2 and the old motherboards weren't designed to handle that.

    Intel is not a great company, but the need for a new motherboard shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has actually been paying attention.
  • Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    ^ Coffee* Lake. Frigging code names and no edit button...
  • HStewart - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    You could still be right even with "Cannon Lake" - "Coffee Lake" maybe use a transitional platform for 10nm "Cannon Lake" platform.

    Intel is not the only company that switches motherboard designed, new AMD chips don't support older platform.

    Keep in mind also - there could more that one Coffee Lake chip - maybe would that can support the older motherboard but loose some of features plan for newer platform.
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    However the cases where a given intel chipset supports more than a single generation of processors are few and far in between. Intel's platform longevity is close to ZERO.

    AMD also changes platforms, but only every once in a while, and only when the change is a technical requirement. AMD platforms are designed for longevity, for example the current zen chipsets will support zen 2 and zen 3, and not just the first current zen, well into 2020 and beyond.

    Intel in contrast, regardless of what this article might allege, chance chipsets simply in order to sell more chipsets, they'd rather shove a whole new chipset and integrated graphics most people don't want down their throats and pocket in the money.

    Not that AMD wouldn't love to be in the position to do the same, but they don't have a monopoly to exploit, being the underdog they are simply forced to play nicer.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Its a shame though, because AMDs chipset IO connectivity is extremely limited already, if they won't extend it for ~5 years or so, that will make the entire platform look terrible by the end of it.
  • ddriver - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    How exactly is it limited?
  • bill.rookard - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Exactly. Looking at the block diagram, the Ryzen AM4 socket provides natively:
    4 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 / 16 x PCIe 3.0 (graphics) / 4 x PCIe 3.0 (M.2 @ x4 or 2 x M.2 @ x2 or SATA 3.0 x 2)

    Connected to the chipset via PCIe x 4 equivalent to DMI 3.0 - chipset provides:
    2 x USB 3.1 Gen 2/6 x USB 3.0/6 x USB 2.0
    8 x PCIe 2.0
    6 x SATA 3 (depending on the chipset - up to 6).

    Meanwhile, LGA 1151 provides
    16 PCIe 3.0 lanes (graphics) (yeah - that's it)

    connected to the chipset via PCIe 3.0 x 4 to the Z270 which provides :
    up to 24 PCIe 3.0 i/o lanes / Gigabit ethernet / 10 USB 3.0, 14 USB 2.0.

    So - looking at the block set - from the point of (for example) a program importing a video on the fly, compressing it, and putting it out back to storage:

    On the Ryzen CPU, if you have the storage attached to the CPU based SATA ports and/or USB 3.1 ports, the transfers are direct from the storage to the CPU across dedicated links, processed, then back out across the dedicated links. You could theoretically max this out if the storage is the USB 3.1 links and the CPU SATA or NVME drives. If you're using the chipset based SATA/USB 3.1 ports, then it follows the same path as Z270, with the chipset and the 4 PCIe 4.0 CPU links getting in the way.

    Meanwhile, the LGA 1151 CPU has NO dedicated IO direct to the storage/USB connections. All storage and connectivity goes through the DMI (PCIe x4) links so all data coming in must be processed through the chipset across the DMI links which is where your bottleneck might show up.

    That means in certain scenarios/workloads and depending on how you connect your storage, a Ryzen AM4 setup could be faster than the associated LGA 1151 CPU because of how some of the storage is connected directly to the CPU.
  • FAQ-Kiddall - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    To your point, the CPU benchmarks here on the site corroborate that, in certain applications and games, a system with the Ryzen chip outperformed Kaby Lake. It's seems about 55/45, in favor of Kaby lake, and on about 20-25% of marks, they are within 5 % of each other, and more than half are well within 10%, a far cry from several years ago. AMD making a few steps in the right direction, but not for anyone beyond a general consumer.
  • Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if Cannonlake chips are a direct drop-in replacement for Coffee Lake motherboards, since Cannonlake should be a straight process change and essentially the same architecture.
  • HStewart - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Maybe so - but I am expecting Cannon Lake, to allow more Cores because of new 10nm will allow it. Plus it be foolish to believe that Intel is not aware of AMD efforts.

    Also Intel has no monopoly, the bigger threat to Intel is ARM and lower power machines. Most customers like my sister don't need to power of multi-core desktop with separate graphics cards - and iPad works fine for her.

    One is living in fantasy not to see that.

    As for a longevity, I have dual Xeon 5160 system that I have for around 10 years and still runs - it actually still a pretty fast machine - about as powerful as original Surface Pro .
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    You're talking a different kind of longevity. Try thinking more along the lines of the ability to put an AM3 processor in an AM2 socket motherboard and still have it function... same for AM3+ CPUs and AM3 boards. Granted that AMD were barely competitive at that stage, but the point is that THAT is what platform longevity is about, not about how long you can keep the same old CPU and motherboard ticking over together. Intel have been forcing chipset changes for years now, over utterly trifling differences in CPU.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Especially annoying when some of their older low-core chips have far better PCIe connectivity than newer high-core chips, eg the venerable 4820K. I do wonder how well a revised 4820K would sell if it was available (it's only about 55 UKP used these days), 40 lanes, multi-GPU, etc. One could set one up on a decent board with three 780 Tis and a 960 Pro for a nice render box. This is the sort of idea AMD is going for with the 1900X, smart move.
  • HStewart - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Well I don't actually see having CPU upgradable too much. When I built machines, I built them has render nodes and I would usually build another machine. But things have change and I believe Intel has notice that changes - desktop market is much smaller than 10 years ago when I was doing render nodes - everything has gone mobile. What is important to me in longevity is that the Dual Xeon I built 10 years ago is still running - even though I have other machines since them. But that maybe primary because it is Xeon.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    A cpu is most reliable component of a PC, is not the Xeon, your mobo has a higher failuer chance past 5 years. My Athlon X4 620 is also running for 10 years so what?
  • MagpieSVK - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    How could new AMD chips use AM3+ platform that thing has it roots in socket 939 from 2004!! and FM2+ was newer meant as mainstream platform.
  • DanNeely - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Outside of SOCs for laptops, USB for intel is in the chipset not the CPU package; so it shouldn't matter.
  • Alexvrb - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Yeah I was just thinking that sounds pretty silly to me. Has more to do with the added cores. Back when this socket was introduced, I doubt they anticipated a resurgent AMD with a strong new platform.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Has nothing to do with either, unless they are substantially raising the TDP. More likely is that they have yet again decided to change how much of the voltage regulation hardware is on-die vs. on-board, for "reasons" that they will no doubt elaborate in some helpful powerpoints.
  • Shiitaki - Wednesday, August 9, 2017 - link

    I was amused by all of the complaining, Intel has been doing this for years now. Two processors cycles is pretty normal.

    You have the most relevant and useful information, better than the person responsible for the article, thank you.
  • FAQ-Kiddall - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Meh. To be honest, it takes a sucker obsessed with maintaining his reputable nerd status to believe it's worth upgrading every year. I did an AMD build back in 2010 (regretfully confined to a $750 budget), a Haswell build in 2013, and the only real reason I see to upgrade now from my haswell is to take advantage of DDR4... That likely accounts for at least half of the 15-20% upgrade in performance from Haswell to Kaby Lake.
  • B3an - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Intel are simply cunts, so this isn't remotely surprising news if true. I'll be ditching my 5960X soon and getting a Threadripper. Intels X299 platform is a complete mess and a joke, along with the ridiculous CPU prices.
  • Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    What isn't remotely surprising is that adding new features to your chip, like, oh, six USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports, would require a new motherboard.

    I'm not saying Intel aren't c*nts, mind you.
  • blahsaysblah - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Thats historically handled by the chipset on Intel side, it has absolutely nothing to do with the CPU. This is purely same old same old from Intel.
  • Samus - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Yep. They are transitioning to a generational CPU/platform. Which is really just bad for consumers and overall entirely inefficient for OEMs and supply chains. This explains why motherboard prices are so high too.

    Sure, new platforms have new features and support new things, but there is NO reason a CPU should be designed specifically to NOT work with an old platform. Just like AMD's AM2+/AM3 (which supported 4 generations of CPU's) you lose features and some performance, but it was great you could put a new CPU in an old AM2+ system with more cores and a new micro-architecture in aging business systems to give them a few more years.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    What would stop them enabling those features with a new chipset and still letting you opt out by using the new CPU in an old board? Not much, that's what. Not much at all.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Thing is, Intel failed to add such new tech to earlier chipsets again and again and again, tech sites criticised them for it but Intel just didn't listen. It's not a new phenomenon, eg. lack of native USB3 for revised X79 was just daft.
  • Meteor2 - Monday, August 7, 2017 - link

    Just so we're clear, Coffee Lake to offer six USB 3.1 gen 2 ports has been announced?
  • smilingcrow - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Intel's strategy is to have 2 design teams working at the same time on different platforms with a lot of freedom to not worry about compatibility.
    This is clear from examples such as integrating the VRMs on die which was short lived and allegedly is making a comeback.
    This of course is bad news for enthusiasts who hope to upgrade their CPU but is good news for everyone else.
    Why? Because as the vast majority of systems aren't upgraded it means that when Intel builds a new platform they don't have to compromise it to keep compatibility.
    Why should the vast majority potentially lose some performance in their new platform PC just to keep compatibility for the few?
    Whilst I think that is a fair attitude in reality I'm not sure how significant any performance losses would be and whether Intel are just being cynical so they can sell new motherboards to the small minority of bleeding edgers.
    I think it's a mix of the two and the OEMs love a new platform in the same way that car salesmen/women love a mid cycle refresh.
  • flgt - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    This^. The vast majority buy platforms. Businesses buy a PC, run it until end of warranty for 3-5 years and then trash it. Same for laptops. That's what drives the revenue. It does suck for enthusiasts though.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Given the scale of the industry and the resources involved, it makes a total nonsense of all the G20 b.s. about climate change measures costing $100 trillion for a mere 10 month delay in what would happen anyway. Yeah like they really care when the very nature of some industries means resource exploitation is not exactly efficient. :D Hmm, could build a very nice wall for a $100T...
  • HStewart - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    yes... you be surprise on how old some of machines are in Point of Sale world. In that world Core 2 processor can be consider new. It allow about quantity - when you 500 to 1000 stores with 5 to 8 machines each - that adds up quick.

    And when they get upgraded - it not replacing single CPU - it replacing entering machine.

    On corporate side, it is exactly what you say - about 3 to 5 years - and desire is Laptop not desktops - because Laptop can be taking into meeting rooms and labs.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    This would bear out if they had indeed been releasing platforms that were unrestrained in their pursuit of the giddy heights of better performance. Sadly that has not been borne out in reality. The see-saw back and forth on voltage regulation has done diddly-squat for actual progress (if one way was indeed better than the other, why would new and better performing chips go back to the old way?)
  • austinsguitar - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    this is a joke. we have seen silicon used in z270 and it has been working in nearly every leaked image and test. intel, you will not be my next cpu company. do you here me? this is the last straw for me and im sure thousands of others that bought z270 earlier this year.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    So one leak says it works, one leak says it doesn't, and you just believe the latest one you hear? :)
  • AlyxSharkBite - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Well this made my upgrade decision easy. I just built a Ryzen7 system for my gf and it runs really nice since I have to toss my current mobo (Thanks Intel) I think I'll go Threadripper.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Pretty much my line of thinking too. I had built a Ph2 965 system for my gf, but it lacks a lot of the newer tech I'd prefer it to have for modern compatibility. So, Ryzen for her, TR for me.
  • nagi603 - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Well, the joke is on you, intel, my next system will probably be a threadripper one.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Coffee Lake and ThreadRipper target entirely different audiences. TR is not a mainstream gaming CPU.
  • theuglyman0war - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Not necessarily different audiences? Coming from a 6-core i7-980x HEDT machine seeing no reason to upgrade over 6 years during these times of incremental ennui...

    an inexpensive unlocked 6 core replacement that gives me more faster renders per core and the features my aging ASUS REIII sorely lacks ( pci-e 3, usb 3.1, Sata 3 that doesn't suck, nvm-e etc.. )
    Then 6-core coffee lake begins to look like a viable hedt solution ( as long as I don't miss the lane loss! )
    If they significantly boost those lanes over 1151...
    Then I am definitely all in!
  • theuglyman0war - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    More importantly...
    That as a HEDT solution with the same amount of cores as my i7-980x it replaces...
    It would most assuredly offer the highest single threaded performance ( for vrt pulling and z-brushing ) of any other current TR or SL-X CPU going on the market!

    So not only more than 4 cores but the MOST powerful cores to date! How would that not be a HEDT consideration that overlaps? With a core increase such a consideration was bound to make things "interesting"?

    Once again...
    lane increase or lack thereof would be the determining factor?
  • edzieba - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    For the past decade, Intel consumer sockets have been released on a two-gens-per-socket cycle (with the exception of the Lynnfield/Clarkdale split). 1151 spanning two generations (Skylake & Kaby Lake) before a refresh is in line with that standard cadence.

    As for why: Feeding an extra two cores, and upgraded video outputs (e.g. HDMI 2.0). These require physical changes in socket interface.
  • vegajf51 - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    That would be true if one purchased a z170 board, but what about all the people like me that purchased z270?

    While I could have purchased a z170 for my kabylake you need a skylake cpu to update the bios before you can drop the kabylake in
  • edzieba - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    " but what about all the people like me that purchased z270?"
    The same as if you purchased a Z97, or Z75/Z77, etc.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Intel could keep the chipset compatible for 5 CPUs in a row, and those that hop on at the last stop would still only see one of them. Can't really help that.
  • smilingcrow - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    But that's an irrelevant aspect of the scenario really and only affects a small proportion.
    Of the 20%, say on average, that buy into the last platform for that socket, typically I understand that less than 10% of systems are upgraded which would mean that only 2% of all 5 platforms would be unable to upgrade to a newer CPU type.
    But of those 2% many might be Celeron, Pentium or i3 owners who would be happy enough to upgrade to an i5 or i7 from the same platform so the number of owners who truly felt thwarted in the case you mentioned might well be 1% of the whole that bought into that socket.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    You bought an obsolete z270 in 2017 when Ryzen existed, your fail.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Skylake, KL and CL are the same damn chip, "new gen" was just a marketing gimmick.

    Years ago
    Skylake
    i7 6700K

    KL
    i7 6750K

    CL
    i7 6790K
    i9 for the six cores
  • theuglyman0war - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    A new chipset that introduces more lanes to go along with those extra core would easily open my wallet
  • m16 - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Kind of expected, they've been on a two and done status for a while, with some exceptions (I took heed with Sandy/Ivy Bridge, Haswell/Broadwell).

    On that front alone, it's perhaps notable to consider this if you're looking to upgrade later on or to maintain the same types of main boards, you might just need to buy the cpus and boards in bulk.
  • vegajf51 - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    What sucks is I purchased a z270 board at launch, and its not even a year old yet and will soon be obsolete. :-(
  • shabby - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    But the new boards will be much better, they'll have two usb type c ports in the back, not just one... worth the upgrade!
  • hansmuff - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Hah not only that, NATIVE USB 3.1!
    That's gotta be some sort of crazy train where i get CHIPSET SUPPORT FOR USB 3.1!
    THERE IS NO WAY THAT A 3RD PARTY CHIPSET COULD HANDLE THAT, NONE. OR WAIT, THERE IS BUT THAT NEEDS CPU PCI-E LANES OR DMI BANDWIDTH. WE DON'T GIVE THE PEASANTS THAT FOR UNDER $1000.

    I feel weird now.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    To be fair, third-party USB 3.1 controllers usually suck.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    "I feel weird now."

    :D:D Well written.

    It is kinda nuts, Intel eeking out these changes like they're tossing out scraps to beggars. Intel reminds me of Denethor in Return of the King when he's eating at that table.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    "Obsolete" is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe you don't have to replace the CPU with the latest and greatest immediately as its released.
  • vegajf51 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    I agree but I bought a really nice z270 board when kabylake launched hoping to use it with coffee lake later on. Intel should have never launched z270 and just kept using z170 until coffee lake.
  • willis936 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    The forced obselecense by Intel is getting more and more apparent. Driver support ends way sooner than any other manufacturer. Chipset update when there are no new features to add and no new architecture that could justify a change in what is on the chipset. There's no level of delusion possible that would make it so that Intel employees don't feel dirty putting out these hardware "updates".
  • PixyMisa - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Just got my Ryzen system two days ago. Thanks for removing any risk of buyer's remorse, Intel.

    (Got the Dell Inspiron 27 AIO. It's pretty nice.)
  • theuglyman0war - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    to be fair...
    They have "all" practiced releasing limited chipset longevity.
    The first time I ever decided to buy into an awesome chipset with an eye towards future upgrades was with AMD's ( it's AMD after all? ) socket-939 in 2005!

    And I got AMD butt hurt with obsolescence. To this day I cringe when anyone touts AMD's upgradability legacy.

    With that said I am either going Coffee Lake ( if they up the lanes with that new chipset ) or 8 core Threadripper ( for the lanes Ryzen 7 lacked ).
    Neither motherboard of which I will expect to upgrade past Graphics, memory and storage! Just like my x58 I use and upgrade on with as much!
  • xrror - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    niiiiicccee... well, that pretty much kills *the* reason for people to have been excited for Coffee Lake. Bonus points if Intel also prices it same price as X299 6/12 core processors - cause I mean lets make it financially pointless to still consider socket 1151 v2 as it's for sure a dead end platform and in the end is only $30 less.

    Classic Intel really... but even I didn't expect them to be *this* dense, but sadly it doesn't surprise me.
  • xrror - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    And it just dawned on me what Coffee Lake is now positioned to do. It will give OEM's a marketable Intel 6/12 core option without the baggage of the x299 platform.

    The "new" socket is to discourage upgrades to existing 1151 systems to avoid completely nuking x299 out of the gate - although the only case where I could think "real money" loss for Intel would have been corporations bulk upgrading 1151 systems vs. buying low end x299 chips.

    But I'm not sure if enough corporate folks would bother and/or support that. "Mainstream Enthusiasts" Intel really couldn't care about - not profitable enough and dwindling in number I guess. They want those Extreme Edition whales to buy x299 =D
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    What would be great is if corps put on a smarter hat and just bought Ryzen Pro instead.
  • theuglyman0war - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    what 6 cores instead of 4? You mean they aren't releasing at 6? ( *the* reason to be excited for coffee lake )
  • Gigaplex - Wednesday, August 2, 2017 - link

    Do something about your ads, Anandtech. I've got my adblocker on and yet the "Ads by Revcontent" banner at the bottom of the article is trying to direct me to NSFW websites.
  • Spunjji - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    If you are blocking their ads (and therefore their revenue) I doubt they care much about your problem.
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    you may learn to read or pay attention......

    "is trying to direct me to NSFW websites."
  • Gigaplex - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    I normally have Anandtech on my whitelist for the adblocker but have turned it back on recently. The ads have been causing problems.
  • Guspaz - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Intel, are you *TRYING* to get me to switch to AMD? I haven't bought an AMD processor since the AthlonXP, but you're making me mighty tempted to spend my money elsewhere...
  • PixyMisa - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Come over to the Red Side. :)
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Hey, maybe this is what's really going on, maybe there's an Intel boss or two who's actually an AMD plant? :D
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    same here athlonXP was my last AMD.. then intel just got the better perfromance and also mainboards (imho).

    but now im back in te AMD cmap.. and happy.

    no way i buy a X299 or Z300 board.

    my ryzen runs fine and the next system i update will get a threadripper.
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    damn typing on the phone..... "AMD camp".

    in 2020 anandtech will get an option to edit comments?

    wow a tech website with tech from the 90s.... get a decent comment system!!
  • yeeeeman - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Happy for 7700k owners. I bet they still think they made a great choice, lol
  • Hurr Durr - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    They did, considering the performance. Price is a different animal though.
  • HollyDOL - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Doh, not happy. Got Z170 board with i5-6400 as a placeholder, hoped to put i7-8700K in there and be happy for quite a few years... guess it won't happen. Luckily atm I am not doing anything with the machine where stronger CPU would be needed.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    100-series is even two generations old by then. That seems like a lot of wishful thinking.
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    I thought it was obvious Intel was going for a new-socket-every-5-seconds malarky when they ditched Z97 so fast.
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    2 intel mobo generations.... or 20 month.....
  • Hurr Durr - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    How is this news? It was known for a while, even if unofficially that 1151v2 is not compatible with 1151.
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    yeah? can you point us to articles who made that clear? you can´t?... i see.

    your are talking about rumors and selling them as facts.
  • nevcairiel - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Well this article isn't much better then a rumor either. The "source" has vanished.
  • Hurr Durr - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Calm your tits honey, I`m not selling you anything, intel will do that for me just fine.
    Source, from the top of my head, would be leaked presentation about three months ago.
  • Madpete - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Anyone else think this is a big mistake if true? And typically arrogant from Intel.

    Their problem now of course is the landscape has changed, before they could do whatever they wanted because there was no real competition. Now that AMD is back in the game, this is no longer the case. And AMD have been taking back market share.

    I have a Z270 system and have been thinking about changing up for something better, if the 6 core 8700k was available I would have bought it no questions as it would have been less hassle / expence. Now that it looks like that's off the table, I have been forced to reconsider my options. And lets be honest Ryzen / Thread Ripper is very very tempting. I'd bet there are a lot of others in the same boat.

    Intel had an opportunity here to keep market share, keep customers happy, and reduce AMD sales in one hit. Instead it looks like the same old Intel, which is a shame for them and for us!
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    sure it is a mistake.
    but there are a lot of not very bright people out there who think INTEL = the best. (*)

    PR works on the weak minded.

    (*)
    same as some people think that english is the native langage of everyone.
    mostly american who learn no other language than english....
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    All this bitching about this First World Problem makes me sick just visiting this site. What a whiny bunch you are! If you don't like it ... there is a simple solution ... don't buy it. What I suspect is actually happening here is buyer's remorse. But ... it goes without saying that better stuff is ALWAYS coming "down the pike." Don't worry - the Coffee Lake adopters will be here bitching when the Ice Lake (10 nm) platform launches next year. Everyone takes a turn.
  • HStewart - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    You just got take what is on Internet with grain of salt and make up your decision. No matter what platform you support, there are going to be complainers.
  • pepoluan - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Intel to AMD: "You will NOT be nailing our coffin!! WE will be nailing or coffin ourselves!!!" (flash a birdy to AMD)
  • mapesdhs - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    I suppose if they're going to end up in a coffin, they make as well make their own nails. :D
  • cyberguyz - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Pretty tired of Intel making socket changes just about every time they drop a new cpu. Intel motherboards are getting too damn expensive to have to get a new one when I move up to a new cpu.

    Perhaps it is time to move my butt over to AMD who has been known for keeping their motherboard architectures compatible across several chip updates.
  • rocky12345 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Yea Intel is known for this type of thing. They just release the 200 series chipsets and only have one product on them smart move Intel and a great way to drive consumers to AMD's Ryzen platform.

    With all of the weird things Intel has been doing lately you have to wonder if they turned the whole company over to a bunch of trained monkeys or something. They have been questionable things since AMD launched the Ryzen series. Other than power requirements there is no reason the Coffee lake CPU's should not at least work with the 200 series chip sets and with how most mainboards are over built these days even the power requirement argument Intel will probably use is null and void I am sure. This all comes down to greed and nothing more. Motherboard makers love the fact that Intel likes to change the sockets so often because it means big bucks for everyone involved. I wouldn't be surprised if Intel and the motherboard makers have an agreement in place that does just that. Intel says hey guys if you put the very best features on our platform boards we will make sure you sell a lot of them by changing things up very often.

    It would explain why Intel boards always seem to have the better feature set than AMD's to some extent. I am not one that is into the conspiracy theories but if the shoe fits in this case and we all know just how dirty Intel can be.
  • BenJeremy - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Enthusiasts should be running from Intel from here on out. If nothing else, they should over the premature birth of the X299 motherboards and the lame, cash-grab of VROC hobbling RAID configs on those motherboards. It's sad that my Z170 is MORE CAPABLE with the onboard M.2 slots than an X299 system, since both are still tied to DMI (To get true benefits of VROC-based RAID, you need an add-in PCI-e card and the currently non-existent and pricey VROC "Upgrade"
    key)

    My next system is going to be AMD. Threadripper looks beefy compared to Intel's offerings.
  • Gothmoth - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    i see there are enough stupids who defend anything intels does.... LOL
  • Hurr Durr - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    It`s just your butthurt talking, as usual.
    Eventually you`ll learn to deal with it. Hopefully.
  • mapesdhs - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Nope, there are definitely plenty of people who defend anything Intel does, despite the evidence that what they're doing is dumb. I've made critical comments about Intel, for which I was lambasted, yet the tech sites said the very same things in the past but at the time they were lauded for holding Intel to account (which made no difference). In recent years though, Intel's practices have gone largely uncriticised by the tech media.
  • jiffylube1024 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    So ridiculous. It's annoying enough that they do minor socket changes every 3-4 years (1155 > 1150 > 1151).

    I've faithfully stuck by Intel through 1155 > 1150 > 1151, and I'll give coffee lake a look when it all shakes out but damn this is annoying.
  • mapesdhs - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Why the "faith"? It's just tech; they're not promising you 73 virgins in the afterlife. :D If they fail to deliver value, shop elsewhere.
  • Samus - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    This is good for AMD then. By the way, fuck you Intel. You pulled this shit with the 80 series chipset not supporting Broadwell (and even newer Haswell chips) then said the 90 series would support the next generation of CPU's which it didn't requiring everyone to upgrade to 100 series and I mean WTF.

    Haven't upgraded since. Next system will be probably be AMD once I find a reason my i5-4670k isn't good enough...
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Ryzen 5 1600 for $200 6c/12t. Coffee Lake at half the price :D
  • Dug - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    If they don't change the pin count, even if it's just a placement pin, it's going to cause a lot of confusion.
    Actually their whole release schedule and products have been confusing.
  • TallestJon96 - Thursday, August 3, 2017 - link

    Very dissapointing. I've got an i7-6700 on a z170, and I probably would buy a six core i7 if it would work on my board. Now I'll definitely wait as a new mobo adds about $150 to the cost. If Zen 2 is good enough I'll jump over there maybe
  • HollyDOL - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    exactly my thoughts
  • Wardrop - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Do people actually upgrade their processors a single generation? Does requiring a new motherboard actually effect anyone at all. I would assume anyone doing such an upgrade for such little gain would probably have the money to fork out for a new motherboard too.
  • mapesdhs - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Especially relevant when, for gaming, it's normally the GPU that matters more, though in these newer times of emergent multi-core support for gaming, live streaming, and being able to cope with background tasks on a "typical" system (something tech review sites never check), AMD's higher core count CPUs make a lot more sense atm, hence the results GN had when comparing Ryzen 1700 vs. 7700K for game streaming. Intel is not moving in the same direction as the gaming public wants to go, especially the enthusiasts. Now they're playing catchup, and making a mess of it.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Intel will always laugh at you.

    If you want a quad core for gaming, Ryzen 5 1500X is your chip. At 1440p/4k a 1500X at 4Ghz vs 7700K at 5Ghz is 95% as fast with a 1080ti.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    Meanwhile with the current AM4 you can upgrade all the way to Zen3 7nm+ in 2020 :D
  • acme64 - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    doesn't every gen come with a new chipset?
  • Mikuni - Friday, August 4, 2017 - link

    this isn't a new gen
  • rolfaalto - Saturday, August 5, 2017 - link

    Any chance this new chipset will support PCIe-4? My code runs fastest when a high end GPU is coupled with an extremely fast (overclocked) CPU with access to fast storage. Since the GPU does all my parallel computation I have no need for more than ~4 CPU threads, though with the maximum possible FP performance to blitz the few serial tasks I have. Optane memory support would also be a significant plus, especially next generation Optane wired directly to the CPU through PCIe-4 would be worth a huge premium to me.
  • AntonErtl - Sunday, August 6, 2017 - link

    In the old days I upgraded from a K6-2 300 to a K6-2 500, and on the next platform from an Athlon 800 to an Athlon 1200; the prices and performance increases of the AMD CPUs at the time made this attractive. Intel never made such upgrades attractive, either by requiring a new board, or through the price (IIRC I could have upgraded the Pentium 133 to a Pentium MMX 200, but the latter was too expensive to make me upgrade).

    Last December my Core i7-6700K died, and I replaced it with an i5-6600K. If Kaby Lake had been available at the time, that would have been an option (although I probably would not have taken it thanks to the lack of HD630 drivers for Windows 8.1; yes, I use CPU graphics).
  • peevee - Monday, August 7, 2017 - link

    No, Intel does not care about your aspirations to upgrade, they want to sell chipsets (although the very idea of a CPU requiring chipset should have been retired 10 years ago).
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