Interesting comparison. Looks like you get flexibility or performance, but not both. It looks like the G.hn performance is what is hurting the ARRIS products, so it will be interesting to see what the next generation can do.
For me personally, I've done the best suggestion, and just ran Ethernet throughout my house!
I'm with you there, hard wired and ready for 10GbE (should it ever be cost effective). Still, sometimes plans change ("The TV looks better over... there!") and that's where I really like powerline-based networking.
Did I miss the tests measuring latency and/or packet size? Seems to me that the major issue with all non-ethernet networks comes down to that.
What, you didn't already run Cat 6 "over there"? For shame!
Seriously, though. If you go through the time and expense of wiring a home with ethernet, do get the highest quality cable you can reasonably predict will be useful in the future, and do run more drops than you ever imagine you'll need or can practically wire up at your network hub. You don't need to use them all on day one, but you'll be really glad they're there when you decide the TV just really needs to be on that other wall.
Haha, true. I try to get at least two ethernet jack on every wall. There's just always something that gets missed. To me, the single best application of powerline networking is home automation, but almost none of the best toys use it (Hue, Nest, etc.)
The problem I've always had with Powerline is the homes wiring: in old homes, or homes that have been extended, sometimes it won't connect at all or it will have pretty bad speeds, and you can't know until you try it really
I have Cat6 and several access points around my house, and the connectivity is great. The problem my family runs into is their devices will often stick to a weak signal instead of hopping over to an access point with a stronger signal. Can anyone recommend a mesh networking solution (single SSID) with a wired backhaul?
You shouldn't need to move to a mesh system to get that functionality. "Enterprise" class APs like ubiquiti AC line offer zero-handoff roaming. Thats the setup I have. Ethernet to every room, and in a couple of strategically selected rooms I have two Ubiquity AC APs installed.
I find mesh systems a good and easy solution for "normals" needing big wifi coverage, but I you have ethernet, I prefer my solution, it find it more optimal.
That's pretty much the same as any decent consumer grade AC router... Gonna have to look into it if/when my 2x ASUS RT-AC68 bite it (one is bridged), they've been working alright for a while now. If they last as long as my first (and only other) router, WRT54Gs, it could be a decade. The fam will just have to deal with multiple SSID until then... :P
That's misleading, You also have to buy the PoE infrastructure because most people won't have that in their houses. And ubiquiti is still a pain to set up. Yeah, yeah, we all know you're an IT stud and consider it trivial, but be honest here. Would you give your parents or your girlfriend 3 ubiquiti boxes, tell them "oh, it's easy to set up, totally obvious" and leave them to it?
Are your parents posting comments on Anandtech? I'm pretty sure anyone reading this site is capable of navigating the Ubiquiti GUI. The only "PoE infrastructure" you need are the (included) power injectors.
The zero handoff doesn't work for their AC products. It's really only useful for VOIP anyway, as a properly configured setup will roam with minimal downtime anyway. OP needs to see if they have RSSI settings for their APs, and possibly turn signal strength down. The APs should be kicking off clients when the link is weak.
The advantage of the "mesh" packages are that the APs are preconfigured to only allow clients with good signal. If you build your own you have to do that yourself, because single APs are preconfigured to serve as much as possible.
Just configure all your APs to have the same SSID and let the clients switch between them as the signal degrades. You only need fancy "enterprise" APs for really old devices that don't handle the switch very well. Android and iOS devices from the past few years have gotten much better about switching between BSSIDs when stronger signals are detected, without changing SSIDs.
I ran this setup at home with 802.11n APs all running off the same SSID without any issues. I only swtiched to separate SSIDs when I replaced one with an 802.11ac AP. Having the same SSID for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks didn't play well with our Samsung phones (would default to the 5 GHz radio, even if the 2.4 GHz signal was stronger / provided a faster link). Since switching to separate SSIDs for each band, things have been much smoother.
The "enterprise" gear works slightly better as it's the APs managing the connection and will kick the device off, forcing it to connect to a stronger signal, but it's not required to make single-SSID networks work.
Setting min RSSI settings for the 2.4 and 5 with the same SSID might help. It did for me. It's really key to ensuring that the clients are only using APs and frequencies that are actually good and usable.
Help your clients roam better, make sure you are setting up your wireless Access Points (APs) such that their transmit (TX) power doesn't exceed your weakest client device. Usually this means turning the TX power down to about 25% on 2.4 ghz band and 50-60% on 5ghz band. Additionally, 2.4ghz band should be restricted to 20mhz wide channel widths and utilizing channels 1, 6, or 11 so they are not interfering with each other. Can also turn off 802.11b compatibility (may be able to turn off 802.11g as well if all your client devices support newer standards) which will also help force clients to connect at higher speeds (= closer APs)
WiFi is the worst thing ever. It should cover the whole house x2, instead it covers 50% if you are lucky and then you have to waste your time with extenders. In the meantime I can get 4G with faster speeds than wired from a tower 100km away! Ridiculous.
>Netgear does have the Nighthawk DST (Dead Spot Terminator) kit hat combines a Nighthawk R7000 with a Broadcom-based HomePlug AV2-compliant PLC chipset. However, it is more of a limited release with the kit being sold only through Best Buy.
Just wanted to say that the "Netgear R7000" in the BestBuy/GeekSquad DeadSpot Terminator (DST) bundle isn't an ordinary Netgear R7000, which is popular amongst prosumers for running open source router firmware, known as DD-WRT.
It's actually a modified R7000, running different base firmware, and has the power adapter integrated into the router enclosure. It's officially known as a "R7300DST", and unfortunately has no DD-WRT firmware support.
Ironically, the older R7000 is more expensive than the R7300DST, which comes with the powerline ethernet adapter, and I purchased the R7300DST a few months back thinking it's a better deal than any other R7000 I saw, only to be disappointed that what I had purchased was in-fact not DD-WRT compatible.
All that being said, it's still a fine router on the stock firmware, and better than what I had before, but was originally only interested in going for a DD-WRT router, so as to go open source.
I was actually wondering if Netgear upgraded the internals on that modified R7000 like asus as did with the 1900P best buy only model running 1.4 Ghz cpu vs the 800-1Ghz of the original.
And the best Open source firmware for the R7000 is Asus Merlin. I would choose it over DD-WRT!
Thanks for those links; good reviews. Orbi boasts best performance, but Google WiFi clearly wins with good design and user experience, and adequate performance.
The benchmarks processed for this article were aimed at determining the effectiveness of kits in extending the reach of the home networks. Therefore, it was an evaluation of the backhaul, rather than performance with client devices themselves.
^^^ Is there an upcoming article that addresses real world performance and use for client devices? Seems that is ultimately what needs to be measured since that is the entire user experience. I don't care about backhaul capability if the device fails to provide adequate performance to the devices that I connect to it.
This is all very nice, but that house is very easy to do. Older houses are much more difficult.
My house was built in 1925. It's two floors. The ceilings are wood lath, with steel mesh holding 3/4 inch mortar with 1/4 inch plaster with numerous layers of paint, the older layers are lead based (well contained). The walls are mostly brick with the above lath, etc. This is very difficult.
While most of the house was wired by myself years ago with CAT 5e, there's a problem. For some reason, my FIOS router doesn't allow (though the instructions says it does, word out is that it's buggy) multiple Ethernet connections for the extenders, for wifi, though Ethernet works just fine, even when I do exactly what the manual says to do. So I tried to use the extenders through my main Apple router, but no go. More than one wifi router wired directly, or through the main apple unit turn the internet signal off at the gateway. Weird! This all worked perfectly with the old gateway with COVAD, so I don't think it's anything I'm doing wrongly.
Because of this, I'm forced to use 4 Apple routers around the house, and I get 155/155 near the main router and with the one in the living room, but then it falls to 30/30, and even lower to below 20/20. Since FIOS is 150/150, or a bit higher, it's frustrating.
So the question here is not how well these do in cheaply built 70's bousing, but in older housing that much less easy for signal throughput. We really need these things tested under more serious conditions.
Your home situation sort of started me thinking. One older home I lived in had a wood burning stove as its primary heat source. It was part of the original design, but an oil burning forced air furnace was later added. In any event, in the original design, several grated holes were placed in the ceiling of the first floor to ensure heat from the stove would reach the second floor.
You could do something similar with your home by cutting open the floors and the walls to install wireless friendly passages that help signals travel more freely. If I was on anything faster than a 12mbps down and 768kbps up DSL link, I'd seriously consider doing the same because there's nothing worse than having a downstream connection that's faster than your local network. A few window-sized holes in the right walls and floors could vastly improve your situation.
I'm not suggesting you just grab some tools and start chopping. To retain house value, you probably should ensure the job is done professionally and the holes are dressed to look appealing to the eye. In my mind, fast network access is worth the trouble of doing some modifications. Besides, the wireless-friendly nature of your home after modifications are completed will probably drive up its resale value to potential buyers that are upset about the same problems your're experiencing now.
The other alternative, depending on your financial situation, is just to unload that house on the market and move into newer construction that can handle modern needs. Though older homes have a certain rustic and quaint appeal, we really should be demolishing buildings made before lead regulations were put in place to get rid of those unsightly old structures. Modern houses are a lot more energy efficient anyway and it's really irresponsible for us to keep anything that was built before the 1990s up and working. Such places are ultimatly wasteful and unfit for human habitation due to a variety of health hazards introduced during their construction.
The current 'mesh Wi-Fi' market is basically a primary router along with 1 or more extra units that expand the reach of the wireless network. That doesn't, unfortunately, correspond to the traditional definition of 'mesh networking'.
Orbi is sold into the same market space as that of Luma and eero. That is why I go to great lengths to explain the 'hub and spoke' model of the Orbi as a type of 'mesh Wi-Fi' configuration, rather than a 'mesh networking' configuration. In the latter space, the hub and spoke configuration is referred to as a 'point-to-multipoint' topology.
Good to see this mentioned. Orbi is NOT "mesh". That being said when a single hop will do to meet your coverage needs the Orbi Point to multipoint configuration has the speed race won hands down. But when you need true mesh (two or more hops and multipoint) then eero is still the current leader in performance and Google in price. I use the Orbi at home, but eero at my business where I need multihop functionality of true mesh.
What about the ping? By going wireless, doesn't that add additional and noticeable lag especially if you are playing FPS games? Throughput looks really nice for the Orbi.
I saw a few people mention Ubiquiti AP's (Which I personal use and love). They are not that best for most people to configure unless you have a good understanding of RF signal tuning. As another choice for those who would like the power of the Ubiquiti systems but the simple setup of a home router. Check out https://www.amplifi.com/. This is Ubiquiti's new home solution company and there Amplifi HD unit has been getting great reviews.
What about long term reliability? I've had several trendnet powerline units fail on me after a year or two of use. They worked great at the start, but they seem to deteriorate and flake out eventually.
I personally went with Actiontec MoCA 2.0. In my testing it is much faster and more reliable than any powerline solution. I understand people may not have coax going to where they want, but if you do, it is a far superior solution. No issue streaming blu-ray's in any part of the house.
I use to have a MoCA setup. Unfortunately Actiontec isn't all the best, and doesn't do too well once one gets past a certain number of units (configuration was a pain too). It did better with the Motorola units, but MoCA is rather expensive compared to the other tech out there.
My cable company/ISP provided me Actiontec 1.0 MoCa adapters free of charge during an internet connectivity trouble call on-site. He said they give them out like splitters to make people who are complaining about internet connectivity at home for free all the time. I got three from him.
MoCa is pretty slick, but there is no substitute for great Wifi as many devices are eliminating the ehternet jack altogether (Chromecast, Smart TV, laptops, etc.).
Unfortunately what's missing is the all-important "how long can the damn hardware run before it needs to be rebooted?" My experience has been that the Apple base station has been pretty much unrivaled in this respect -- it just keeps working. Every other WiFi base station I've ever had to deal with (certainly all the various crappy ones that ISPs give people, along with some common standalone brands like DLink) seems incapable of staying up more than two weeks or so without requiring a reboot. As far as I can tell, the issue is not in the WiFi per se, but in resources leaks in the router part of the device --- something like "each new NAT connection leaks something (bytes?)" and eventually you run out and have to reboot.
Obviously testing for this sort of bug takes time, but given automated tools, it seems like the sort of thing that's totally feasible --- a robot station that simply loops requesting new DHCP requests then some number of different NAT connections --- and we see if that can last indefinitely. Hopefully being pounded with new NAT and DHCP requests every few seconds will shake loose these sorts of resource leakage problems.
And this stuff is IMPORTANT. I'd much rather buy the system whose software was written by someone who knows what they are doing than the system that has 20% higher performance but which randomly stops working under god know what conditions.
Yep, my AirPort Extreme only gets a restart when I upgrade the firmware, which I've done... once in two years. Super-solid and great performance. It sits high on a shelf near the physical centre of my (3-story brick and concrete) house. Nowhere is my LAN speed lower than my broadband (which is admittedly a little 'slow' at 50 Mbps).
This isn't the best of test. There are a number of variables here which could affect the overall outcome.
1. This is a fairly small home on 1 level. Try a larger home, or 3+ story townhome in a congested neighborhood where your neighbors have numerous 5GHz networks. 2. Is there a reasonable signal spot between the router and the wifi mesh repeater? 3. What about lag introduced each time the signal "hops" on a wifi repeater station?
I looked at my options. I had a dead spot between the router and my bedroom just 80 feet away. To get it to repeat reliably using wifi I would have had to use 3 line of sights to get it around the corner into the hall way then up the stairs to the outside of the bedroom.
Option 2 is just plug in a PLN adapter and attach a access point where I wanted. It was actually cheaper in the end and a lot more reliable.
300 Mbps is a lot more than anyone would reasonably need unless they desperately needed that bandwidth for 1 Gbps fiber optic that few of us have to download "Movie preview" torrent files faster. A lot of game servers cap your download limit. So I call shenanigans if you think you need more. And your reflexes aren't going to be faster than even the slowest of broadband connections. Sorry.
So when you tested you ran X parallel streams from one location at a time? If so, that's generally a poor indicator of actual WiFi performance; according to our WiFi guys router manufacturers will "cheat" and optimize for a one-client case.
Instead, why not try doing multiple clients with different PHY rates using multiple streams, which is what happens in the Real World. Your case is basically one person doing something from N locations, which is a test but not a very useful one.
Also, the house is really small. Does extending the network even make sense in this scenario? Why not just have a good router in the middle of the house? Did you baseline the performance of a non-extended wifi setup? Or is the setup just a straw man?
I don't think I will need to add an additional satellite. I have the router on the 2nd floor and the included satellite in the basement. Would recommend to anyone to go with the Orbi solution.
It's taken a long time for g.hn adapters to surface in the UK, but now they're here they sell for a nearly 100% price premium over HomePlug AV2 2000. I took some measurements to consider whether they're worth the premium:
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56 Comments
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jardows2 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Interesting comparison. Looks like you get flexibility or performance, but not both. It looks like the G.hn performance is what is hurting the ARRIS products, so it will be interesting to see what the next generation can do.For me personally, I've done the best suggestion, and just ran Ethernet throughout my house!
nathanddrews - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
I'm with you there, hard wired and ready for 10GbE (should it ever be cost effective). Still, sometimes plans change ("The TV looks better over... there!") and that's where I really like powerline-based networking.Did I miss the tests measuring latency and/or packet size? Seems to me that the major issue with all non-ethernet networks comes down to that.
chaos215bar2 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
What, you didn't already run Cat 6 "over there"? For shame!Seriously, though. If you go through the time and expense of wiring a home with ethernet, do get the highest quality cable you can reasonably predict will be useful in the future, and do run more drops than you ever imagine you'll need or can practically wire up at your network hub. You don't need to use them all on day one, but you'll be really glad they're there when you decide the TV just really needs to be on that other wall.
nathanddrews - Thursday, December 8, 2016 - link
Haha, true. I try to get at least two ethernet jack on every wall. There's just always something that gets missed. To me, the single best application of powerline networking is home automation, but almost none of the best toys use it (Hue, Nest, etc.)adriangb - Sunday, December 18, 2016 - link
The problem I've always had with Powerline is the homes wiring: in old homes, or homes that have been extended, sometimes it won't connect at all or it will have pretty bad speeds, and you can't know until you try it reallyjamyryals - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
I have Cat6 and several access points around my house, and the connectivity is great. The problem my family runs into is their devices will often stick to a weak signal instead of hopping over to an access point with a stronger signal. Can anyone recommend a mesh networking solution (single SSID) with a wired backhaul?asendra - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
You shouldn't need to move to a mesh system to get that functionality. "Enterprise" class APs like ubiquiti AC line offer zero-handoff roaming.Thats the setup I have. Ethernet to every room, and in a couple of strategically selected rooms I have two Ubiquity AC APs installed.
I find mesh systems a good and easy solution for "normals" needing big wifi coverage, but I you have ethernet, I prefer my solution, it find it more optimal.
jamyryals - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Sounds like just what I need, I'll look into it thank you.sl0wcheetah - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Agree. I wasted money on 2 "good" APs (one was a router used as AP) before going with Ubiquiti.It works great.
Ratman6161 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Yes but anything with the word "enterprise" in it usually means you are going to pay more. What if I want "cheap but good" :)?neo_1221 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Actually the Ubiquiti stuff is quite reasonably priced - you can get an AC Lite (2x2) for $75 or the Pro (3x3) for $130.Impulses - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
That's pretty much the same as any decent consumer grade AC router... Gonna have to look into it if/when my 2x ASUS RT-AC68 bite it (one is bridged), they've been working alright for a while now. If they last as long as my first (and only other) router, WRT54Gs, it could be a decade. The fam will just have to deal with multiple SSID until then... :Pname99 - Thursday, December 8, 2016 - link
That's misleading, You also have to buy the PoE infrastructure because most people won't have that in their houses.And ubiquiti is still a pain to set up. Yeah, yeah, we all know you're an IT stud and consider it trivial, but be honest here. Would you give your parents or your girlfriend 3 ubiquiti boxes, tell them "oh, it's easy to set up, totally obvious" and leave them to it?
vanilla_gorilla - Thursday, December 8, 2016 - link
Are your parents posting comments on Anandtech? I'm pretty sure anyone reading this site is capable of navigating the Ubiquiti GUI. The only "PoE infrastructure" you need are the (included) power injectors.igavus - Thursday, December 8, 2016 - link
There's mikrotik, but probably won't end up being much cheaper.. I mean, it's a commodity product and the margins aren't that highsor - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
The zero handoff doesn't work for their AC products. It's really only useful for VOIP anyway, as a properly configured setup will roam with minimal downtime anyway. OP needs to see if they have RSSI settings for their APs, and possibly turn signal strength down. The APs should be kicking off clients when the link is weak.The advantage of the "mesh" packages are that the APs are preconfigured to only allow clients with good signal. If you build your own you have to do that yourself, because single APs are preconfigured to serve as much as possible.
jamyryals - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Awesome, I'll look into min RSSI, thanks.phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Just configure all your APs to have the same SSID and let the clients switch between them as the signal degrades. You only need fancy "enterprise" APs for really old devices that don't handle the switch very well. Android and iOS devices from the past few years have gotten much better about switching between BSSIDs when stronger signals are detected, without changing SSIDs.I ran this setup at home with 802.11n APs all running off the same SSID without any issues. I only swtiched to separate SSIDs when I replaced one with an 802.11ac AP. Having the same SSID for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks didn't play well with our Samsung phones (would default to the 5 GHz radio, even if the 2.4 GHz signal was stronger / provided a faster link). Since switching to separate SSIDs for each band, things have been much smoother.
The "enterprise" gear works slightly better as it's the APs managing the connection and will kick the device off, forcing it to connect to a stronger signal, but it's not required to make single-SSID networks work.
sor - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Setting min RSSI settings for the 2.4 and 5 with the same SSID might help. It did for me. It's really key to ensuring that the clients are only using APs and frequencies that are actually good and usable.Dug - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Change the roaming aggressiveness in the nic properties if you are running Windows. It will switch a lot quicker to the stronger signal.mpickard - Monday, April 3, 2017 - link
Help your clients roam better, make sure you are setting up your wireless Access Points (APs) such that their transmit (TX) power doesn't exceed your weakest client device. Usually this means turning the TX power down to about 25% on 2.4 ghz band and 50-60% on 5ghz band. Additionally, 2.4ghz band should be restricted to 20mhz wide channel widths and utilizing channels 1, 6, or 11 so they are not interfering with each other. Can also turn off 802.11b compatibility (may be able to turn off 802.11g as well if all your client devices support newer standards) which will also help force clients to connect at higher speeds (= closer APs)cen - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
WiFi is the worst thing ever. It should cover the whole house x2, instead it covers 50% if you are lucky and then you have to waste your time with extenders. In the meantime I can get 4G with faster speeds than wired from a tower 100km away! Ridiculous.jordanclock - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Yeah, it's almost as if different frequencies have different penetration properties.nathanddrews - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Don't you dare bring science into this!timbotim - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Quite superb!BrokenCrayons - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
There's also regulatory bodies that limit transmit power resulting in limits on range.sor - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Could you imagine if every household were broadcasting a signal that could be picked up from miles away? :)savagemike - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
The worst thing ever? Really? Settle down and finish your dinner.JoeyJoJo123 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
>Netgear does have the Nighthawk DST (Dead Spot Terminator) kit hat combines a Nighthawk R7000 with a Broadcom-based HomePlug AV2-compliant PLC chipset. However, it is more of a limited release with the kit being sold only through Best Buy.Just wanted to say that the "Netgear R7000" in the BestBuy/GeekSquad DeadSpot Terminator (DST) bundle isn't an ordinary Netgear R7000, which is popular amongst prosumers for running open source router firmware, known as DD-WRT.
It's actually a modified R7000, running different base firmware, and has the power adapter integrated into the router enclosure. It's officially known as a "R7300DST", and unfortunately has no DD-WRT firmware support.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-r...
Ironically, the older R7000 is more expensive than the R7300DST, which comes with the powerline ethernet adapter, and I purchased the R7300DST a few months back thinking it's a better deal than any other R7000 I saw, only to be disappointed that what I had purchased was in-fact not DD-WRT compatible.
All that being said, it's still a fine router on the stock firmware, and better than what I had before, but was originally only interested in going for a DD-WRT router, so as to go open source.
Makaveli - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
I was actually wondering if Netgear upgraded the internals on that modified R7000 like asus as did with the 1900P best buy only model running 1.4 Ghz cpu vs the 800-1Ghz of the original.And the best Open source firmware for the R7000 is Asus Merlin. I would choose it over DD-WRT!
nedjinski - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Is Google's recently announced Wi-Fi / OnHub too late to be included in this article? Or is a different type of system?nedjinski - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/6/13843536/google-...J_D - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/review-comp...Meteor2 - Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - link
Thanks for those links; good reviews. Orbi boasts best performance, but Google WiFi clearly wins with good design and user experience, and adequate performance.Sailor23M - Saturday, December 10, 2016 - link
Problem with getting a google system is that I suspect that it will "phone home" on everything I do on the internet.iamlilysdad - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
The benchmarks processed for this article were aimed at determining the effectiveness of kits in extending the reach of the home networks. Therefore, it was an evaluation of the backhaul, rather than performance with client devices themselves.^^^ Is there an upcoming article that addresses real world performance and use for client devices? Seems that is ultimately what needs to be measured since that is the entire user experience. I don't care about backhaul capability if the device fails to provide adequate performance to the devices that I connect to it.
melgross - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
This is all very nice, but that house is very easy to do. Older houses are much more difficult.My house was built in 1925. It's two floors. The ceilings are wood lath, with steel mesh holding 3/4 inch mortar with 1/4 inch plaster with numerous layers of paint, the older layers are lead based (well contained). The walls are mostly brick with the above lath, etc. This is very difficult.
While most of the house was wired by myself years ago with CAT 5e, there's a problem. For some reason, my FIOS router doesn't allow (though the instructions says it does, word out is that it's buggy) multiple Ethernet connections for the extenders, for wifi, though Ethernet works just fine, even when I do exactly what the manual says to do. So I tried to use the extenders through my main Apple router, but no go. More than one wifi router wired directly, or through the main apple unit turn the internet signal off at the gateway. Weird! This all worked perfectly with the old gateway with COVAD, so I don't think it's anything I'm doing wrongly.
Because of this, I'm forced to use 4 Apple routers around the house, and I get 155/155 near the main router and with the one in the living room, but then it falls to 30/30, and even lower to below 20/20. Since FIOS is 150/150, or a bit higher, it's frustrating.
So the question here is not how well these do in cheaply built 70's bousing, but in older housing that much less easy for signal throughput. We really need these things tested under more serious conditions.
BrokenCrayons - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Your home situation sort of started me thinking. One older home I lived in had a wood burning stove as its primary heat source. It was part of the original design, but an oil burning forced air furnace was later added. In any event, in the original design, several grated holes were placed in the ceiling of the first floor to ensure heat from the stove would reach the second floor.You could do something similar with your home by cutting open the floors and the walls to install wireless friendly passages that help signals travel more freely. If I was on anything faster than a 12mbps down and 768kbps up DSL link, I'd seriously consider doing the same because there's nothing worse than having a downstream connection that's faster than your local network. A few window-sized holes in the right walls and floors could vastly improve your situation.
melgross - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Yes. That's very funny. Cutting windows sized holes throughout the house would add to air flow as well.BrokenCrayons - Thursday, December 8, 2016 - link
I'm not suggesting you just grab some tools and start chopping. To retain house value, you probably should ensure the job is done professionally and the holes are dressed to look appealing to the eye. In my mind, fast network access is worth the trouble of doing some modifications. Besides, the wireless-friendly nature of your home after modifications are completed will probably drive up its resale value to potential buyers that are upset about the same problems your're experiencing now.The other alternative, depending on your financial situation, is just to unload that house on the market and move into newer construction that can handle modern needs. Though older homes have a certain rustic and quaint appeal, we really should be demolishing buildings made before lead regulations were put in place to get rid of those unsightly old structures. Modern houses are a lot more energy efficient anyway and it's really irresponsible for us to keep anything that was built before the 1990s up and working. Such places are ultimatly wasteful and unfit for human habitation due to a variety of health hazards introduced during their construction.
tibble - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
Hub and Spoke IS NOT MESHganeshts - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
The current 'mesh Wi-Fi' market is basically a primary router along with 1 or more extra units that expand the reach of the wireless network. That doesn't, unfortunately, correspond to the traditional definition of 'mesh networking'.Orbi is sold into the same market space as that of Luma and eero. That is why I go to great lengths to explain the 'hub and spoke' model of the Orbi as a type of 'mesh Wi-Fi' configuration, rather than a 'mesh networking' configuration. In the latter space, the hub and spoke configuration is referred to as a 'point-to-multipoint' topology.
wchpitt - Monday, January 2, 2017 - link
Good to see this mentioned. Orbi is NOT "mesh". That being said when a single hop will do to meet your coverage needs the Orbi Point to multipoint configuration has the speed race won hands down. But when you need true mesh (two or more hops and multipoint) then eero is still the current leader in performance and Google in price. I use the Orbi at home, but eero at my business where I need multihop functionality of true mesh.hp79 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
What about the ping? By going wireless, doesn't that add additional and noticeable lag especially if you are playing FPS games? Throughput looks really nice for the Orbi.mrseanpaul81 - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
It's a shame the Google WiFi hardware was not included since it seems like a different implementation from the Netgear orbi.SGTGimpy - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
I saw a few people mention Ubiquiti AP's (Which I personal use and love). They are not that best for most people to configure unless you have a good understanding of RF signal tuning. As another choice for those who would like the power of the Ubiquiti systems but the simple setup of a home router. Check out https://www.amplifi.com/. This is Ubiquiti's new home solution company and there Amplifi HD unit has been getting great reviews.meacupla - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
What about long term reliability?I've had several trendnet powerline units fail on me after a year or two of use.
They worked great at the start, but they seem to deteriorate and flake out eventually.
Dug - Wednesday, December 7, 2016 - link
I personally went with Actiontec MoCA 2.0. In my testing it is much faster and more reliable than any powerline solution. I understand people may not have coax going to where they want, but if you do, it is a far superior solution. No issue streaming blu-ray's in any part of the house.Threska - Sunday, December 11, 2016 - link
I use to have a MoCA setup. Unfortunately Actiontec isn't all the best, and doesn't do too well once one gets past a certain number of units (configuration was a pain too). It did better with the Motorola units, but MoCA is rather expensive compared to the other tech out there.greg_mitch - Monday, January 2, 2017 - link
My cable company/ISP provided me Actiontec 1.0 MoCa adapters free of charge during an internet connectivity trouble call on-site. He said they give them out like splitters to make people who are complaining about internet connectivity at home for free all the time. I got three from him.MoCa is pretty slick, but there is no substitute for great Wifi as many devices are eliminating the ehternet jack altogether (Chromecast, Smart TV, laptops, etc.).
name99 - Thursday, December 8, 2016 - link
Unfortunately what's missing is the all-important "how long can the damn hardware run before it needs to be rebooted?"My experience has been that the Apple base station has been pretty much unrivaled in this respect -- it just keeps working.
Every other WiFi base station I've ever had to deal with (certainly all the various crappy ones that ISPs give people, along with some common standalone brands like DLink) seems incapable of staying up more than two weeks or so without requiring a reboot. As far as I can tell, the issue is not in the WiFi per se, but in resources leaks in the router part of the device --- something like "each new NAT connection leaks something (bytes?)" and eventually you run out and have to reboot.
Obviously testing for this sort of bug takes time, but given automated tools, it seems like the sort of thing that's totally feasible --- a robot station that simply loops requesting new DHCP requests then some number of different NAT connections --- and we see if that can last indefinitely. Hopefully being pounded with new NAT and DHCP requests every few seconds will shake loose these sorts of resource leakage problems.
And this stuff is IMPORTANT. I'd much rather buy the system whose software was written by someone who knows what they are doing than the system that has 20% higher performance but which randomly stops working under god know what conditions.
Meteor2 - Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - link
Yep, my AirPort Extreme only gets a restart when I upgrade the firmware, which I've done... once in two years. Super-solid and great performance. It sits high on a shelf near the physical centre of my (3-story brick and concrete) house. Nowhere is my LAN speed lower than my broadband (which is admittedly a little 'slow' at 50 Mbps).digitalgriffin - Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - link
This isn't the best of test. There are a number of variables here which could affect the overall outcome.1. This is a fairly small home on 1 level. Try a larger home, or 3+ story townhome in a congested neighborhood where your neighbors have numerous 5GHz networks.
2. Is there a reasonable signal spot between the router and the wifi mesh repeater?
3. What about lag introduced each time the signal "hops" on a wifi repeater station?
I looked at my options. I had a dead spot between the router and my bedroom just 80 feet away. To get it to repeat reliably using wifi I would have had to use 3 line of sights to get it around the corner into the hall way then up the stairs to the outside of the bedroom.
Option 2 is just plug in a PLN adapter and attach a access point where I wanted. It was actually cheaper in the end and a lot more reliable.
300 Mbps is a lot more than anyone would reasonably need unless they desperately needed that bandwidth for 1 Gbps fiber optic that few of us have to download "Movie preview" torrent files faster. A lot of game servers cap your download limit. So I call shenanigans if you think you need more. And your reflexes aren't going to be faster than even the slowest of broadband connections. Sorry.
mannyvel - Thursday, December 29, 2016 - link
So when you tested you ran X parallel streams from one location at a time? If so, that's generally a poor indicator of actual WiFi performance; according to our WiFi guys router manufacturers will "cheat" and optimize for a one-client case.Instead, why not try doing multiple clients with different PHY rates using multiple streams, which is what happens in the Real World. Your case is basically one person doing something from N locations, which is a test but not a very useful one.
Also, the house is really small. Does extending the network even make sense in this scenario? Why not just have a good router in the middle of the house? Did you baseline the performance of a non-extended wifi setup? Or is the setup just a straw man?
greg_mitch - Monday, January 2, 2017 - link
Just upgraded from the Netgear R7000 to the Orbi in a 3500+, 2-story w/basement house. The difference has been staggering.Basement - Before/After - http://i.imgur.com/kaypSio.jpg
2nd Floor Bedroom - http://i.imgur.com/7tKagF2.jpg
Main Floor Office - http://i.imgur.com/ndMcCR8.jpg
I don't think I will need to add an additional satellite. I have the router on the 2nd floor and the included satellite in the basement. Would recommend to anyone to go with the Orbi solution.
MrZipf - Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - link
This is a great article.It's taken a long time for g.hn adapters to surface in the UK, but now they're here they sell for a nearly 100% price premium over HomePlug AV2 2000. I took some measurements to consider whether they're worth the premium:
https://wordpress.com/post/specklepattern.wordpres...