AMD's Radeon HD 5870: Bringing About the Next Generation Of GPUs
by Ryan Smith on September 23, 2009 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Meet the Rest of the Evergreen Family
Somewhere on the way to Cypress, AMD’s small die strategy got slightly off-track.
AMD’s small-die strategy for RV770
Cypress is 334mm2, compared to 260mm2 for RV770. In that space they can pack 2.15 billion transistors, versus 956 million on the RV770, and come out at a load power of 188W versus 160W on the RV770. AMD called 256mm2 their sweet spot for the small die strategy, and Cypress missed that sweet spot.
The cost of missing the sweet spot is that by missing the size, they’re missing the price. The Cypress cards are $379 and $259, compared to $299 and $199 that the original small die strategy dictated. This has resulted in a hole in the Evergreen family, which is why we’re going to see one more member than usual.
As Cypress is the base chip, there are 4 designs and 3 different chips that will be derived from it. Above Cypress is Hemlock, which will be the requisite X2 part using a pair of Cypress cores. Hemlock is going to be interesting to watch not just for its performance, but because by missing their sweet spot, AMD is running a bit hot. A literal pair of 5870s is 376W, which is well over the 300W limit of a 6-pin + 8-pin power configuration. AMD saves some power in a single card (which is how they got the 4870 under the limit) but it likely won’t be enough. We’ll be keeping an eye on this matter to see what AMD ends up doing to get Hemlock out the door at the right power load. As scheduled we should see Hemlock before the end of the year, although given the supply problems for Cypress that we mentioned earlier, it’s going to be close.
The “new” member of the Evergreen family is Juniper, a part born out of the fact that Cypress was too big. Juniper is the part that’s going to let AMD compete in the <$200 category that the 4850 was launched in. It’s going to be a cut-down version of Cypress, and we know from AMD’s simulation testing that it’s going to be a 14 SIMD part. We would wager that it’s going to lose some ROPs too. As AMD does not believe they’re particularly bandwidth limited at this time with GDDR5, we wouldn’t be surprised to see a smaller bus too (perhaps 192bit?). Juniper based cards are expected in the November timeframe.
Finally at the bottom we have Redwood and Cedar, the Evergreen family’s compliments to RV710 and RV730. These will be the low-end parts derived from Cypress, and will launch in Q1 of 2010. All told, AMD will be launching 4 chips in less than 6 months, giving them a top-to-bottom range of DX11 parts. The launch of 4 chips in such a short time frame is something their engineering staff is very proud of.
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Xajel - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Ryan,I've send a detailed solution for this problem to you ( Aero disabled when running and video with UVD accerelation ), but the basic for all readers here is just install HydraVision & Avivo Video Convertor packages, and this should fix the problem...
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Just so we're clear, Basic mode is only being triggered when HDCP is being used to protect the content. It is not being triggered by just using the UVD with regular/unprotected content.biigfoot - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Well, I've been looking forward to reading your review of this new card for a little while now, especially since the realistic sounding specs leaked out a week or so ago. My first honest impression is that it looks like it'll be a little bit longer till the drivers mature and the game developers figure out some creative ways to bring the processor up to its full potential, but in the mean time, it looks like I'd have to agree with everyone's conclusion that even 150+GB/s isn't enough memory bandwidth for the beast, I'm sure it was a calculated compromise while the design was still on the drawing board. Unfortunately, increasing the bus isn't as easy as stapling on a couple more memory controllers, they probably would've had to resort back to a wider ring bus and they've already been down that road. (R600 anyone) Already knowing how much more die area and power would've been required to execute such a design probably made the decision rather easy to stick with the tested 4 channel GDDR5 setup that worked so well for the RV770 and RV790. As for how much a 6 or 8 channel (384/512 bit) memory controller setup would've improved performance, we'll probably never know; as awesome as it would be, I don't foresee BoFox's idea of ATI pulling a fast one on nVidia and the rest of us by releasing a 512-bit derivative in short order, but crazier things have happened.biigfoot - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Oh, I also noticed, they must of known that the new memory controller topology wasn't going to cut it all the time judging from all the cache augmentations performed. But like i said, given time, I'm sure they'll optimize the drivers to take advantage of all the new functionality, I'm betting that 90% of the low level functions are still handled identically as they were in the last generations architecture and it will take a while till all the hardware optimizations like the cache upgrades are fully realized.piroroadkill - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
The single most disappointing thing about this card is the noise and heat.Sapphire have been coming out with some great coolers recently, in their VAPOR-X line. Why doesn't ATI stop using the same dustbuster cooler in a new shiny cover, and create a much, much quieter cooler, so the rest of us don't have to wait for a million OEM variations until there's one with a good cooler (or fuck about and swap the cooler ourselves, but unless you have one that covers the GPU AND the RAM chips, forget it. Those pathetic little sticky pad RAM sinks suck total donkey balls.)
Kaleid - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Already showing up...http://www.techpowerup.com/104447/Sapphire_HD_5870...">http://www.techpowerup.com/104447/Sapphire_HD_5870...
It will be possible to cool the card quietly...
Dante80 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
the answer you are looking for is simple. Another, more elaborate cooler would raise prices more, and vendors don't like that. Remember what happened to the more expensive stock cooler for the 4770? ...;)Cookie Monster - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
When running dual/multi monitors with past generation cards, the cards would always run at full 3d clocks or else face instabilities, screen corruptions etc. So even if the cards are at idle, it would never ramp down to the 2d clocks to save power, rending impressive low idle power consumption numbers useless (especially on the GTX200 series cards).Now with RV870 has this problem been fixed?
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
That's a good question, and something we didn't test. Unfortunately we're at IDF right now, so it's not something we can test at this moment, either.Cookie Monster - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
It would be awesome if you guys do get some free time to test it out. Would be really appreciated! :)