AMD: “No Chiplet APU Variant on Matisse, CPU TDP Range same as Ryzen-2000”
by Ian Cutress on January 11, 2019 12:30 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
- AMD
- Trade Shows
- Zen 2
- CES 2019
- Ryzen 3rd Gen
- Matisse
One of the big questions coming out of AMD’s CES announcements was if its new CPU design, codenamed Matisse and which enables two chiplets and an IO die on a single package, would support one of those chiplets being graphics based in order to make an APU. In our discussions with AMD, we received confirmation that this will not be the case.
The new Matisse design is the platform for AMD’s next generation of desktop processors. The layout shown at CES this year represented the design as having a single IO die, about 122.6 mm2 and built on GlobalFoundries 14nm, paired with a chiplet die, about 80.8 mm2, containing eight cores and built on TSMC’s 7nm. There is obviously space on that package for another CPU chiplet, and there has always been questions if the chiplet design is amenable to using a graphics chiplet instead.
AMD stated that, at this time, there will be no version of the current Matisse chiplet layout where one of those chiplets will be graphics. We were told that there will be Zen 2 processors with integrated graphics, presumably coming out much later after the desktop processors, but built in a different design. Ultimately APUs are both mobile first as well as lower cost parts (usually), so different design decisions will have to be made in order to support that market.
This doesn't rule out a future processor using chiplet graphics, this is just for Matisse.
Our contacts at AMD also discussed the TDP range of the upcoming range of Matisse processors. Given AMD’s definition of TDP, relating to the cooling performance required of the CPU cooler, the range of TDPs for Matisse will be the same as current Ryzen 2000-series processors. This means we could see ‘E’ variants as low as 35W TDP, all the way up to the top ‘X’ processors at 105W, similar to the current Ryzen 7 2700X. We were told that the company expects the processors will fit within that range. This should be expected on some level, given the backwards compatibility with current AM4 motherboards on the market with a BIOS update.
Read our announcement on the early preview of the Matisse processors here:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13829/amd-ryzen-3rd-generation-zen-2-pcie-4-eight-core
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neblogai - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
No- 8 core Zen2 chiplet APU, made with a different, energy efficiency oriented IO die that has a tiny iGPU makes sense (but not sure if AMD will put effort to make it). At this point- AMD's Raven Ridge/Picasso APUs serve only ultrathin laptop, and entry level desktop markets. And a faster 8 core CPU packaged with iGPU could offer a whole new lineup, as it is needed if AMD want to seriously compete in gaming laptop market and high performance laptop market; and a crazy efficient 8-core Zen2 with iGPU would be very welcome for embedded/enterprise.StevoLincolnite - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
I would rather AMD stuck with Quads for the laptop market... The more CPU cores you throw at it... The less TDP the APU has in driving up GPU and CPU Clock rates.Raven Ridge will sacrifice GPU/CPU clocks when running a game after it has hit it's TDP wall... Sometimes you can get more gaming performance if you limit your CPU clocks as the GPU can clock up higher/more often.
Now idle power consumption is where the real issue is with AMD's notebook efforts right now, that needs a good looking at.
neblogai - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
Thing is- AMD's quad APUs slow down the dGPU, compared to Intel quads (even U-series) and 6-cores. Not sure why- maybe 4MB L3, and high latency from all the IF. So, AMD needs better mobile CPUs to run dGPUs properly- that is, if AMD want to compete in laptop gaming market with their CPUs.As just RR APUs- I agree, those by themselves are fine for media consumption laptops, and some gaming. And regarding idle power consumption- I believe it is more of a laptop manufacturer problem, because Huawei managed to make a cheap, fast, and great value MatebookD with Ryzen- that somehow offers great battery life. Other manufacturers should learn from them, how to achieve such energy efficiency. Plus, just released Raven Ridge 12nm refresh will help efficiency too.
nandnandnand - Saturday, January 12, 2019 - link
Simply put, if desktop Ryzen goes to 16 cores, mobile Ryzen should go to 8 cores. And Intel is already putting out 6-8 core mobile chips.Ryzen 3000-series mobile APUs are a big disappointment. Wait a year, and they will go to 7nm, probably doubling the core counts, lowering power consumption, increasing IPC, including Navi graphics instead of Vega, etc.
Also, too many people are confusing mobile APUs with desktop APUs in these comments.
Dragonstongue - Saturday, January 12, 2019 - link
I agree with you, the throttling stuff, and being high clocked low battery size sucks $%^ use 4 cores, cooling is easier to deal with and power use is "easy" (4 core 8 thread of course) but the makers of laptop etc need to stop being douches with "has to be as thin as possible" instead use a good to great size battery with good connectivity options. do not gimp paired memory or speed amounts, easy migration to other drives included "in the box"Anyways, 4 core, 8 thread, 7 nm, means they have a hunking big chunk available to "plop" a graphics core next to it *Drum roll **************** Navi...........
nicolaim - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
Typo "amenable to using a graphics."Ryan Smith - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
Thanks!costeakai - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
apus with navi.gpu and zen2.cpu (must) have to be incoming sooner rather than later.neblogai - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
Actually, next 'confirmed' AMDs APU, as per leaks, will be a 7nm, 4-core Zen2 + Vega, not Navi, and considering Raven Ridge refresh just launched as 12nm- it should be coming no sooner than late 2019.GreenReaper - Friday, January 11, 2019 - link
It better have a tweaked video block with AV1 support or it'll be outdated almost as soon as it arrives, especially for power-conscious mobile devices.